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Post by abisai on Mar 11, 2004 19:37:38 GMT -5
OK, more body bags, this time in Spain. Five separate bombs and a letter from Al-Quaeda telling them that is what they get for opposing Islam and supporting USA. I was thinking today that the problem of the thing is the scale of damage caused by a handful.
Of the terror acts in US history, many just a dude, two dudes, of a handful of dudes:
Abe Lincoln, shot by one man with one gun.
JKF, shot by one man with one gun, or two at most if you believe it
Reagan, shot once by a guy trying to impress Jodie Foster
Unibomber, one man with some letter-writing skills and bomb-making skills
Oklahoma City bombing, two convicted, maybe two more guilty out there
unknown anthrax mad scientist, presumably just a dude with some letters and anthrax
Now before you get all al-Quaeda, sure these were military attacks planned with precision. But each plane consistsed of 4/5 guys who had lived in US for mad long. There is a real chance they could pull that same trick in the future, being that all they need is the right set of circumstances. Or trains. Or busses. Or whatever, this fear and need for preventing the shit is what I am talking about. Help me out here, work with me.
I thought of segmenting the people into groups:
1. masterminds/dark hands/money bags
2. mouthpieces
3. brains and balls
4. fodder
I figure 1 & 2, if you can identify and locate are worth attacking with all you got. 3 I see as intelligent people, since you can't infiltrate and learn the nuances of a culture and pull of taking over planes without some brains. 4 I see as the people that listen to whatever is on the radio and dress in whatever is called cool and would be happy Joe Consumers if they lived in US but don't and are jealous and just go along with 1, 2 & 3. I figure if you take out 1, 2, & 3, well then 4 will go back to smoking hashish and wiping his ass with his hand. The hardest thing is that 3 consists of people that hold convictions and can hold a reasonable conversation you would think.
I guess my point in all this crap is that these individuals acting independently can kill hundreds or thousands and there is no way to stop every single potential attack from this segment of terrorist unless we can convince them it is a flawed strategy. I know Capital Hill (and Israel for that matter) beleive slaughtering the heard should scare them off. But this does not work. I do not know what does and I do not sugggest holding their hands and talking about their childhood and parents and all the pyscho-babble. I am talking realisticly, we cannot stop every guy from entering our free nation. We cannot stop every potential attack, no matter how much intelligence. We can take out the networks and we have to deal with the nut jobs, but there has to be a reasonable way to prevent the Waco/Osama/drink the coolaid phenomenon.
Yeah, that is about where I got stuck in the train of though as I had no constructive resolution. But then I realized there were some really intelligent people out on the message boards to chime in their two cents. See how I butter you up? Really, we all have a vested interest in removing these threats. I do not pretend to fathom why they occur but though to myself there has to be a way to set people straight before they cause more destruction in our world. Throw me a bone here, play along a little, might be interesting.
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Post by abisai on Mar 12, 2004 18:12:50 GMT -5
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Post by JBOY on Mar 13, 2004 10:01:46 GMT -5
THIS IS A LITTLE HARSH BUT LETS START WITH WHERE IT COMES FROM.
TAKING OUT THE TOWERS.
BLOWING UP ONE OF OUR SHIPS(USS COLE)
HITTING EMBASSIES, TRAINS, CARS, ETC... AT WILL
NOW THE SPAIN BOMB(911 DAYS AFTRE SEPT 11)
13 BOMBS 13 ORIGINAL SEPT 11 HIJACKERS
SOME LADY IN MD. SELLING INTEL TO IRAQ 4 10K
THESE ARE THE FACTORS FOR WHAT YOU ARE ABOUT TO READ.
THESE TERRORISTS (AL QUADEA BASQUE WHOEVER) ARE DIRT POOR DUMB AS SHIT. THEY HAVE NO RESOURCES FOR CAMELS LET ALONE EXPLOSIVES. SO WHERE IS THE BRAINS THE MONEY MAN THE SUPPLIES COMING FROM? WE TOOK OUT SADDAMS REGIME. BIN LADEN SCARED ASS IS STILL IN HIDING? WE LOCKED UP ALL THERE MONEY AND FUNDS.
YET HERE THEY ARE PULLING OFF MASTERMIND PERCISION ATTACKS IN MAJOR PLACES. WELL WHEN THEY PULLED THAT SHIT IN OUR BACK YARD AND WE SEIZED THE OPP. TO GO INTO AFGAN. AND DO SOME GOOD ALL THESE COUNTRIES WANTED TO DO NOTHING OR SEND 10 INTEL TROOPS OR 4 TANKS OR HELP TO REBUILD WHEN WE WERE DONE.
GUESS WHAT? HERE THEY COME AND NOW YOUR READY TO DO SOMETHING! YOUR LUCKY YOU ONLY LOST 200.
NOW ITS OUR JOB TO ONCE AGAIN LEAD A COALITION TO DO WHAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE ALREADY? BULLSHIT.
ITS OUR JOB TO TAKE OUT EVERY SCUMMY TOWEL HEAD WHO NEEDS IT. YOU KNOW SYRIA HARBORS TERRORIT. TIME TO BOMB THEM. YOU KNOW THE SAUDIS HAD BIN LADEN AND LET HIM GO BECAUSE THE US WOULDNT PAY UP. BOMB #2. AFGANS HIDING IN MOUNTAINS. BOMB 3-23.
ITS TIME TO TAKE A LOOK AT WHATS BEING DONE FOR US HERE AND NOW. THE REST OF THE WORLD TOOK A BACK SEAT WHEN IT WAS OUR PROBLEM, WELL PAY BACK IS A BITCH.
LAST THING AL-QUADEA SAYS THE NEXT AND BIGGEST ATTACK IS 90% COMPLETE FOR THE U.S. SO WATCH OUT AND BE AWARE.
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Post by abisai on Mar 13, 2004 14:32:30 GMT -5
I guess to me it seems that it doesn't take a lot of money ofr masterminds to pull of a huge terrorist action. When you couple that with the fact that killing someone already prepared to die for their cause is hardly preventing any of them from killing others with their death wishes.
We cannot kill every one of these guys nor even hope to know where they all hide. In a world of five billion people there are 15,000 unaccounted for trained Al-Quada terrorist. Any many other groups and solo idiots. The resources used include things bought at Walmart and Home Depot.
There has got to be a way to stop Mohammed from pulling that rip cord.
We have year until our national election. I bet they want to pull something off before then.
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Post by Rob G on Mar 14, 2004 2:51:52 GMT -5
In a world filled with misnomers "Terrorism" and "Terrorists" are aptly used in context.
The goal of Terrorists is not neceesarily to some goal. Its to create Terror by definition. And they do infact succeed in this goal no matter the outcome.
Kudos for them.
I only come to this thought as i consider ways to battle these forms of terrorism. And virtually everything i come up with includes violated our civil rights.
After 9/11 i said to hell with our civil rights. Lets get the bad guys. But ofcourse i did not invision what that meant. What ever tools we give our police/FBI/etc. to battle terrorism they use to battle all crime and in any way make their job easier. So now they can hold anyone for 24 hours for no reason. And now they can search more stuff. And now warrants are given out for free. All at our expense. For my part its exceptable.
In other words i will except the lessening of my civil rights in exhcnage for what i consider better odds at preventing the worst.
In the end we all know that a man willing to sacrifice himself can do alot of damage no matter what.
Now i'm about to say something terrible.
If tommorro all arabs were expelled from this country i would sleep safer tomorro.
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Post by abisai on Mar 14, 2004 3:06:04 GMT -5
Now i'm about to say something terrible. If tommorro all arabs were expelled from this country i would sleep safer tomorro. Same here. Or at least if they had their own separate form of transportation, airport safty... ;D But to the point of my first post, there are more than just Arabs in the gameplan for these guys. Embassies in Africa were hit too. Personally, I can't tell the difference between all the ethinicities, but there is some notion of white-looking Middle Eastern, Eastern Eurpean, and perhaps even Croate-Russian dudes aligned with them. Not to mention Americans themselves going along with whatever. These are the guys I fear (other than flying, then I fear everyone, even the cocktail waitresses). I suppose my mind retains those images of anarchists at global economists meetings for the WTO ruining private proprty and gernerally making complete asses of themselves. But these are the people I fear could do stupider things if they link to worse agendas than flag-waving and pole-sitting. Yeah, them's the ones I don't want near me neither, and I would like to find a way from keeping them from getting to the point of enlisting in these international groups. |
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Post by abisai on Mar 14, 2004 3:07:28 GMT -5
Oh yeah, and I vote for complete immingration halts for about a decade or so, until we clean up the streets. But that will never happen..............
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Post by Rob G on Mar 14, 2004 17:33:41 GMT -5
Oh yeah, and I vote for complete immingration halts for about a decade or so, until we clean up the streets. But that will never happen.............. YES, this is a good start. No more visas or lotterys. |
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Post by abisai on Mar 15, 2004 18:56:14 GMT -5
Now they are talking like the terrorists actually won the new guy the election in Spain. Shame on the media for painting that picture and basically handing the terrorists a victory.
I know these guys are a bit off in the head to do what they do, but I do think there is more to it than destruction without purpose. I don't think we need negotiate with the group, but there has got to be a way to stop the seed of thought that lead people to enlist.
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Post by Rob G on Mar 16, 2004 0:31:59 GMT -5
Yup, Why for no one evr bombs the media
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Post by The Nasinator on Mar 16, 2004 20:18:12 GMT -5
It is extremely unfortunate but when you consider that if a terrorist is completely willing to commit suicide in an attack, there is almost no way to stop him. There are too many ways to create terror and kill lots of people. One of the easiest ways would be a sort of repeat of the Spain bombings. If a terrorist strapped a bomb to himself and walked onto a subway platform at Grand Central during rush hour he could easily kill 200 people.
How do we stop this? Hopefully by people alerting the police when certain materials that could be used for bombs are purchased, somebody witnessing something suspicious before the fact, etc. But…what if the terrorist brought the materials with him while crossing our borders?
“Oh yeah, and I vote for complete immigration halts for about a decade or so, until we clean up the streets. But that will never happen..............”
I with ya dude. The US/Mexican border is a disaster waiting to happen. It’s not patrolled anywhere near enough. Our immigration policy is a joke. If a terrorist wanted to enter the country with the ingredients for a bomb, or even the bomb itself, there is a great chance he could almost waltz across the Mexican border into the US. What a joke.
As for Spain, it’s a disappointment. Whether the media portrays it as the terrorists being successful or not, the terrorists will view it as Al Queada being responsible for the regime change, which will give them confidence. I think the Spaniards whimped out. They want to close themselves up in a cocoon and pretend the world doesn’t exist, get out of Iraq and not offend the big, bad terrorists anymore. Good luck with that plan Poindexter.
“If tomorrow all Arabs were expelled from this country I would sleep safer tomorrow.”
Me too.
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Post by abisai on Mar 16, 2004 22:34:55 GMT -5
I just heard that in Arizona alone, IN ARIZONA ALONE, after Bush passed the "it's OK to hire Mexicans law" a fulle 200,000 crossed the border of ARIZONE ALONE. This sickens me. Wages are not so great for these jobs because there are people willing to work for nothing, not because Americans are lazy. If you paid an American a decent living he'd do anything. Look at garbage men, the get paid, and they and mostly all red-blooded Americans (that I have seen).
Media on radio is talking like there is a terrorist in every house. On every street. In every nation. So what if there were, all it takes is a couple guys. Someone cast a filibuster spell and knock some sense into them. ;D
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Post by Rob G on Apr 17, 2004 17:33:42 GMT -5
Do you guys remember some months ago Israel killed the shiek leade of the terrorist organization Hamas. And a new leader took over and talked about attacking Israeli ruling family and americans. Well now he's dead too. Israel got him with a missile while he was in his car. Israel is awesome. They are really starting to take care of business. Lets wait and see if Hamas is as loud about who they elect their new leader this time arround.
as always...
F**k the terorists
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Post by abisai on Apr 18, 2004 10:41:06 GMT -5
I guarantees they are dude. I only heard the name Hamas like two years ago and know there are other groups doing these things. And let's not forget the PLO is basically in power despite being largely a bomb brigade in the past. What this will do is bring someone new in and he will say even more radical things and Israel will get more scared and bomb more Palestinians. It's not like Hama is going to say ok you win, let's elect John Kerry our leader and give each other big hairy man hugs and plant some damned flowers with Peace Frogs playing on the radio - that hasn't happened in any of the many killings of Palestinian leaders. Let me put it this way, this recent guy was on the job like a week or whatever, did Israel really think he was a threat already? Must have. But whatever he said or whatever they did surely gets them no closer to having suicide bombings. At all.
If Israel considers these people their citizens on their land, then this is a police matter. Obvisously not the case. If they consider them foreigners living on their land, not only are they mistaken, they will never get beyond the present state of things. If they consider them foreigner living on foreign soil then they are a war and have basically won already as there is nothing the Palestinians have to bomb. I've seen Arafat's home, it is an adobe hut with like two big rooms. I'm not sure there wasn't an outhouse. Fine, call it a war then and make goals and go about warmongering. But they are already talking about killing more Palestinians leaders, including some guy living in Syria. I'm not saying these people are in any way innocent or virtuous, I am saying that not addressing the actual situation facing the Palestinians furthers the continuation of this ordeal.
I would also like to reitterate that these people are in a political struggle. Much like the IRA in Northern Ireland used to be. I would say that is different than al-quaida or the idiots running to Iraq to die at the hands of American troops.That paints my perception of them as different than terrorists. Because they have goals. They have a recognized leadership. They include women and children in their ranks. Afghanistan does not equal Palestine. Sharon does this and it saddens me to read you do that too Rob. This makes me want the US to just go ahead and resolve the situation ourselves whether Israel likes it or not. OK, even if you doo consider all Palestinian efforts terrorist assaults, then that goes back to my point of different classes of people involved and all you're doing by this is removing the mouthpiece. That leaves the moneybags and fodder running around in status quo without being threatened or changed in the least and assuring another mouthpiece will come to power.
In other news a giant terrorist plan by a handful of British guys was found a while back. No links to anyone outside the country, just dudes sitting around their homes thinking it was a good idea to kill massive amounts of people for no reason. I fear trench coat mafias everywhere.
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Post by Ken on Apr 19, 2004 17:14:07 GMT -5
Speaking of Hamas, the NY Times reported a spokedman from Hamas has said that their new leadership will not be so pronounced, as they fear retaliation from Israel. Maybe they learned their lesson hmmm.?
Also, with Israel's new security measures in place and the death of the last 2 Hamas leaders, suicide terrorist attacks are down close to 70%.
I think that the Israeli's weren't necessarily afraid of Rantisi, they just heard his rhetoric and decided to go for a humiliating knock-out punch, to take the winds of of Hamas' sails a bit, and show the Palestinians how serious they are.
Your points about class warefare, literally class warefare are very interesting Buck. I'm going to have to do some serious thinking about that and would like to hear more of your ideas concerning this. Maybe someday when Palestine achieves their own state through this whole process, roadmap thingy, things will stabilize.
As for the Palestinians and Hamas, I feel that I HAVE to view them as terrorists, simply because they commit terrorist acts and therefore have a hard time sympathizing with them. In fact, I never have.
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