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Post by abisai on Apr 19, 2004 18:21:56 GMT -5
I never realy knew a damn thing about any of this until I read up on it about a year ago. All I knew before then was "Palestinians blow themselves up to kill Israelis, that is stupid" and thought nothing more of it. I wanted to understand why these damn Arabs have a death wish about their cause inside and outside the Middle East.
What I learned shocked the hell out of me. In very short, the rebirth of Israel was an idea born in lat 19th century. Christians who believed the End Days require Jews to have the Promised Land backed it. There was slow immigration. Picture situation in reverse with Palestinians dominating and Jews in minority. Even aptly with claims of Jewish terrorism as they opposed Arabs owning the Promised Land. Then WW2 came and every Jew on the planet wanted to flee whereever they were, mostly from Eastern Europe and the Soviet block. Smart move on their part, no doubt. But when the UN decided to make a country for Jews, present-day Israel was not the only place considered. Other African lands and some islands were in the running. But they went ancestrial and gave them Israel. Every Arab and their mother saw it as Crusades revisited, perhaps rightfully so. The US had a political cause as it viewed Israel as a lauching ground for conflicts in the Middle East, especially to oppose the Soviets (think Afghanistan and the Domino Theory). But when it came to the shit, Truman basically says "fuck it, let them defend themselves, dirty Jews" or something like that. But the nation of Israel relied upon a Jewish schoolfriend of Truman's to make a personal plea. It worked and we backed them up with guns and guns and kept other bigger power from getting involved and helped negotiate with our big guns. This relates to the Palestinians as they fleed the area to neighboring nations when there were battles. When they returned their lands were no longer theirs and has never been returned. The Jewish explanation is that Jews in other lands lost property just the same and they consider it a fair trade. These other countries don't really want these dirty Palestinian immigrants with no talent or wealth taking dirt naps on their soil, so these countries have a vested interest in getting Palestinians their lands back. Thousands flew to Lebanon and launched bombings from their and Israel went there and slaughtered Arabs there like it was nothing. Guess who was convicted as a war crimincal for that? Ariel Sharon. Israel refuses to discuss recompensation for lands and literally takes more lands away to this very day. That wall they erected cuts through neighborhoods and separates homes from farms and schools. Israel has taken guns away from the Palestinian Authority and bombed their HQ repeatedly. This leaves them very incapable of monitoring their people, let alone policing against bombings. The wall not only remains, it is expanding. This leaves very many dirty Arabs feeling like they have nothing to lose. Kill the leaders all you want, if they get their hands on weaponry they will be expected to use it. As fertilizer and the like are used to make bombs, it is hard to stop individuals from acquiring the components to make devices capable of killing Israeli buses and market goers. So long as there remains no political solution, it should be viewed as a war. That's my estimation. I would not point to Israeli bombings as the answer as there have been lulls in bombings before. Unless they kill all the Palestinians there are bound to be uprisings as they leave so much unresolved. I view it very much as a political struggle. Notice no one is offering the displaced Palestinians any land anywhere.
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Post by Rob G on Apr 20, 2004 3:58:44 GMT -5
----DKB wrote: ---" Notice no one is offering the displaced Palestinians -----any land anywhere. "
Damn right man. Thats what burns me up. All the arabs support their Palestinian "Brothers" in their cause but Syria wont just annex them or take them in. You know why. Cause all the palestinians are murders raising new generations of murderers. Its insane.
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Post by Ken on Apr 20, 2004 15:44:55 GMT -5
Let me try and pick up on Buck’s history lesson. Correct me if I am wrong guys. So the Jews are granted Israel, upsetting Arabs and Palestinians like crazy. They flee, and a whole bunch of Arab nations, including, I think, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt and Jordan attack Israel. The Israeli’s are armed to the teeth in the latest weaponry a la the United States and beat back the Arabs in the Six Day War. During the Six Day War, much more territory is seized by the Israeli’s, territory not originally given them by the United Nations. Most of this territory is geographically important to the defense of Israel as it is militarily strategic. The Arabs are soundly defeated by the Israeli’s, have lost territory (I believe in Lebanon and Syria?), and are now bitter and hated enemies. All peace negotiations require that Israel give back the taken land acquired in the Six Days War and give Palestinians the “Right of Return” to the land and dwellings the Palestinians originally lived in before the Jews came and took over. Now, with peace negotiations continuing up to this day, the Israeli’s have decided to move settlements out of some areas of the Gaza Strip, are building a wall separating an extremely volatile area of some Palestinian neighborhoods where it is believed that Palestinian terrorists are infiltrating into Israel, the Israeli’s have finally decided to take the “Right of Return” off the bargaining table, and there is talk of a separate Palestinian State next to Israel. Oh yeah, and two Hamas leaders have been assassinated within the last month or so. I think that about brings us up to date. Please correct me if I’m wrong as I too am trying to come to a better understanding of this crazy situation. Buck wrote…“Christians who believed the End of Days require Jews to have the Promised Land backed it.” I’m extremely curious about this, tell me more. The NY Times reported today that they think they know who Hamas’ Rantisi successor is. A surgeon, novelist and extremist named al Zahar. He spent several months in jail when Arafat imprisoned several known extremists after a bus bombing and Israel put pressure to jail those responsible. Several members of his family, including his son, were killed when the Israeli’s bombed his house a few years ago. Al Zahar hasn’t made any public appearances as Hamas is afraid that the Israeli’s will kill him. Hamas has declared a Jihad against the U.S. I’m not worried; we have plenty of guys over here named Jihad. Oh sorry…that’s Jamal…my mistake. ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by abisai on Apr 20, 2004 18:43:23 GMT -5
History II ;D
Rob most the original people displaced were women and children as the men went off to die in a losing war. I would hardly characterize these folks as a gang of murderers. But that was then and this is now, as they came back and had babies and there are men willing to die in more losing wars.
Ken, I gotta separate Palestinians land rights as different and separate from that of neighboring countries. Those were land grabs made in wars between nations and ended up being negotiated. Egypt was the biggest loser and winner in that it gave up prime real estate for the sake of peace. Go Egypt, it's your birthday, take some pictures at the pyramids and sleep better at night. Lebanon seems the most popular getaway for the old Palestinians and when they were launching attacks Israel went in and attacked. Call it war or call it retaliation, an army killed an entire community and that is what I referred to Sharon as a war criminal for that indescriminant "final solution".
The "right of return" I believe was never fully satisfied. On the one side they thought there were getting their shit back and can point to houses they used to actually live in and no longer have any claim to. On the other hand, some land was ceded together in pockets and these people get to go "somewhere". I don't think either side fully accepted the terms of that agreement. Something like a quarter of the buildings owned by Jews once belonged to Palestinians. Some continue to live on other nations as minorities in a ironic reversal of the Jewish plight that caused them to get Israel back after being away for 2000 years. Anyways, most land grabs from wars are what Israel has returned to other nations, not the Palestinians. That was all set against a very Cold World backdrop and foreign interests. To bring it more up to date, you would have to include Jews moving back onto properties ceded to Arabs. This is major hot topic. Israel bull dozes homes on the regular and sets up farms. Perhaps a far better use of the land and situation for everyone involved I must say. But a scandal due to the history and politics of the situation. This has lead to scrutiny and the government enacting "unilateral solutions". The situation is such that they are posed to sever all heads of Arab leadership and move the populace remaining to lands it determines as adequate to resolve the situation.
Oh yeah, Christian Zionism is not something I made up. It is based on literal interpretation of the Bible wherein the Jews = Israel and Jerusalem is the Holy City and all the logic of someone 2000 years ago would have about the situation then. To me, this misses the mark drastically and I take great solace in the best solution in John's Revelation wherein Jerusalem is determined so holy it needs no temples within it and the entire thing is revered as a temple. There might be enormous walls around it too I forget. But yes, Christians of some beliefs have rallied for the Israeli land to be theirs in accordance with their interpretations of the Bible. Case in point would be the infamous Rev Jerry Falwell said in 1981: "To stand against Israel is to stand against God. We believe that history and scripture prove that God deals with nations in relation to how they deal with Israel." I can dig up more historical names and perhaps quotes if you would like.
To me, recent years follow this trend: suicide bombing, Israel demands Palestinian Authority do something, PA does x, Israel says it is not enough and bombs some Arabs, repeat. I disbelieve PA has the resources to do the proper x. I believe if Israel really wanted to settle they could get something done. I believe Israel is more in the wrong as the more powerful party and the situation is decidedly different from a terror for terror Al-Quade Jihad. It is a defined group of people in a defined place with defined goals and they can be negotiated with and have been - there are repeated cease-fire agreements of fleeting success over the years.
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Post by Rob G on Apr 20, 2004 19:10:17 GMT -5
Yeah yeah, you guys know your stuff. I am impressed. Israel totally kicked all their buts. But a few years later Anwar Sadat, my personal hero came to power in Egypt and Egypt launched a counter attack and busted Israels ass. Sadat shit on the US, RUSSIA, ISRAEL, and ALL ARABS, all at the same time. Theres a descent movie called Sadat staring Louis Gosset which if i remember correctly covers the story. The modern egyptian army can actually bang hard. But Sadat recognised the manipulative ways of the ARABS. Saying famously that "All arabs are willing to fight to the last Egyptian."
After those events Egypt stays largerly out of the affairs of Arabs vs. Jews. Though i heard today that Egypt now proclaims that no American or Israel interest will be safe now anywhere in the world. I say BRING IT. Cause all americans are willing to fight to the last Israeli.
Regardless of how the whole thing started they must reach peace. And palestine is totally unwilling to conceed anything. Israel throws them a bone constantly saying "OK, dont kill anybody for 5 days and then we will talk." And the next day they blow stuff up. Its insane. I swear this many faction in palestine and some work against the others in their efforts for peace.
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Post by abisai on Apr 20, 2004 19:12:33 GMT -5
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Post by abisai on Apr 20, 2004 19:30:27 GMT -5
Ahh, here we go: Anyhow i gotta dispute you on arafat being there leader. He leads and represents something like 35% of them which is the largest percentage of any of their warlords but still not legit. He cant even get them to seize attacks during peace talks. Rob as a Democrat take a deep breath and tell me ho many more votes Gore got that Bush. haha. Anyways, I agree with this to an extent. The extent being the PA needs the tools to fight off the splinter groups. Resouces they cannot afford as a group of hand=TP people. The PA needs weaponry that Israel takes away. They need to employ workers to police and cannot afford that. But he is the guy and all things there filter through Arafat. And I don't think the cycle of bombings begins or ends with one side. The cease fires have been broken by Israelis and their assassinations are going to have some repurcussions. The matter being how drastic that may be. If it means a "final solution" groovy. Rob, you asked why I support Palestine. Basically, I just never knew that modern Israel was nary a viable thought until 1945. When I read up on it I viewed as more parallel to IRA than to an army of shoe-bombers. I used to love the IRA for some sick reason, blame Potato Famine papers I did in school and Braveheart, Rob Roy, Some Mother's Son, My Left Foot, my soccer coaches in high school straight off the green boat from Eire, etc etc etc. That link was strong enough for me to sympathize with PA. Not that I do a damn thing about it, I just bring up the counter to the Jewish perspective that is everpresent and what I was reared to believe was the case: "they've always been this way" & "the cycle seems endless" and most damning "if only the suicide bombings would stop they could have peace". If the bombings stop the Jews have peace and the Arabs still have no land and no rights. Give' em land and rights seems most obvious to me. My bet is someone big in ISrael gets blown (maybe not by PA with these Jihadists latching onto causes everywhere) and Israel really cleans houses, mops the streets with blood and gives a strip of land somewhere the PA with concrete walls around it. Then they toss their garbage over it adn let it become some Arab man's treasure. I call it the New Jersey plan. Yup, a cess pool f waste is what they will end up with eventually. Just a matter of time now.
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Post by Ken on Apr 22, 2004 15:41:44 GMT -5
It is so interesting that some Christian groups believe that God treats nations in regard to how they treat Israel. I guess it helps psychologically to think that you have God on your side when you go to war or some semblance of war. It is very hard for me to separate Palestinian terrorist acts from Al Qaeda terrorist acts. I know and understand that Palestinians and Al Qaeda have no organizational affiliation in that they have no mutual leadership. However, the act of terrorism is what binds them; their methodology, the results, the horrible deaths. I know the Israeli’s take away the Palestinians weaponry and the means to defend themselves, this is smart. But do the Palestinians really believe that the Jews will just go away? I am sure that every single Jew in Israel has been PERSONALLY affected by a Palestinian terrorist bombing, losing a valued family member; however, the Jews just keep on coming. They are still there, still in charge and still multiplying. So the question becomes, what do the Palestinians hope to accomplish? They may never drive the Jews out of Israel without a full on war yet they have no weapons. They need backing from a formal country or state, with a standing army to full on attack Israel. This will not happen. So they can continue to bomb buses and kill innocent people and children. Why not come to the bargaining table fully? Can they? How many factions of terrorists are there now? Can the Palestinians ever fully be united under one leader or is all they have is hate and the desire to blow themselves up? I think the Palestinians have lost the ability to come together and negotiate as a whole or unite under one strong leader or even their own centralized government. Hey Rob, I’m curious, what is the majority religion of Egypt? There has been quite a lot of talk regarding reinstituting the draft to shore up our armed services since we have so many troops in Iraq. I know that this is usually a lot of talk and I’m not even concerned that they will actually reinstitute it but the question remains. Would you go and serve if they did reinstitute the draft and go to Iraq? My answer: yes, I would. I support our government in its efforts to change the Middle East so that it is no longer a terrorist breeding ground. In other news, have you guys heard how much Halliburton is paying people to go over and work in Iraq? How about as much as $1000.00 a day? And that’s for doing warehouse work, or being a recreational director, or driving a truck. Oh, and by the way, if you sign a one year contract and make it the whole year, you get a 20% bonus. And one more thing, it’s tax free. And you may not have to even be qualified for the position, depending on the job of course. Here’s a link to the Halliburton website and their job postings. www.halliburton.com/careers/careers_kbr.jsp
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Post by abisai on Apr 22, 2004 20:07:38 GMT -5
When Israel first become a modern day nation, they were open to creating a neighboring Palestine. Other Arab nations blocked this and totally pimped the plight of the Palestinians as bargaining chips and denied any resolution other the Israel being knocked off the map. That was stupid and the Palestinians only got dumber and weaker from it, albeit with funds from abroad and more bombs away capabilities. Personally, I view the recent developments as very related to the balance of power in the Israeli goverment. The rise of Sharon aligns neatly with the insurgance of recent years. A little ditty of Sharon: PLO bombed Jews from Lebanon. Israeli army came in and kicked major arse, like ridiculous amounts of arse as any nation has the right to do when people in another nation attack yours. PLO militants all run away. Here's the dirt; Sharon gave the nod to Christian allies in Lebanon to enter the Palestinian camps and deal with the remaining women and children. This meant they killed off just about everyone in a couple of towns. Year was 1982 and an Israeli commission found "that the Minister of Defense [Sharon] bears personal responsibility" from this incident and Sharon was removed from power explicitly because of it. Busted link you gotta copy this entire thing into browser address to see official report: www.israel-mfa.gov.il/MFA/Foreign+Relations/Israel’s+Foreign+Relations+since+1947/1982-1984/104+Report+of+the+Commission+of+Inquiry+into+the+e.htmThere's plenty less provable stuff that sounds more propaganda than fact, pertaining to Sharon's war experiences in his younger days and accusations he wanted to nuke the PLO, but the indesputable point is he is a war hawk who refuses to negotiate in the least and he represents that to the PA. But yeah, they did fight the admitting of Israeli right to exist as a nation and had been forced to abandon that over the years. Again I say if Israel really wanted to settle the peace on its own accord they could get away with appeasing many Palestinians via political rights which means economic rights which means the majority would have reason to oppose the radical bombers. Israel won't do that any more than they'll convert them all to Judaism. Never mind that they can sue for reparations from Euraopean banks and turn around and deny any to the people whose lands and buildings they took when they fled Eurasia. But Arabs are not blind to the fact that more ARABs than Jews die as a result of the conflict. Outside Israel the Arabs use this for their own BS devices. Inside Israel Arabs can be reasoned with because of it. Israel has no make some concessions and granting them their same dirty refugee camps without an improvement is not a negotiaion. Arafat has won a Nobel Peace Prize in 1994 for a reason. If Israel was only concerned with the bombings they could ally with the PA and appease their power needs in a joined effort to eliminate extremist groups like Hamas. That's my policital resolution and police action theory and I don't think it's all that crackpot. Yes, PLO/Hamas/whoever employed same methodology as Al-Quadea. To me the key difference being Palestinians had a political agenda and the others wage holy wars seemingly driven to merely make our lives hell. Most Americans believe there will be a major attack before the next election. I personally believe a large part of the problem is the lack of free press and many people over there using clerics as prime source of information and clerics being bitter old angry men making for bitter angry populations in lands like Saudi Arabia and Egypt. These people need to watch Blossom and Friends on TV, then they will see that every problem can end in half and hour, usually with a big hug and sigh followed by a cheesy joke at the end. But when you look at the motives of the terrorist camps you have to admit they are different than "hey, can I get my house back or what?" that is the Palestinian dilemma. They've lived in refugee camps for 50 years. Without resolution. The extremists have popular appeal as the situation doesn not improve regardless the lip service of anyone on any side. Beyond Israel, The international terrorists lived in their own nations of their own accord and enlisted to kill for the sake of killing without ever having a political agenda. They latch onto the Palestinian and Iraqi peoples suffering as excuses for their warmongering. Note they did not attack Israel, they attacked the United States. It's not like they are doing these people any favors in doing so. Remember Arafat shiitting his pants on TV after 9/11 and giving blood and crying like a baby because he knew this was going to come back and haunt his people somehow. TO me, Arafat is the de facto guy they have to run the peace settlement through and killing him basically removes any sensible leadership from ever rising to power - not that Arafet is MR. Sensible but sensible people would not accept a position of leadership d**ned to die at either the hands of your enemies or your own people. Mushareef is my hero for his ability to swim in such waters. MUSHAREEF MUSHROOOMREEDF. MUSHROOMTEETH. ALI BOOM BY YAY ALI BOOM BY YAY. I vote we give this guy a million bucks and hand him the keys to the West Bank with Rudy Guiliani and a hundred Iraqi scud missiles on his side. Something would get resolved I bet. ___________________________________________ Time to enroll for college again with all this talk about the draft. Still blows my mind that more people don't vote. My nation has the power to send me to war, I should have sufficient interest to help them decide whether I go to war or not. Old people vote in force, are not draft eligible, and most are veterans. There is a chance this could happen. A better chance that I would enroll in college if it did. I've thought about the military for my own personal benefit as an organization with a known heirarchy and merit-based promotions. Above the table dealings. No BS. Maybe a misperception? But I am not in support of a draft and don't think I would like to be drafted. The servicemen needed are basically police-keepers. Let the Europeans do that. We drop bombs from afar, that is our strong suit, let's stick with it, it works. At worst, human have an incredible ability to make do, so if we left Iraq to them without so much as a dime to cover the tab, they would find a way to make due. Agent Smith was right, we are all thingyroaches. ________________________________________ Haliburton was also overcharging so much for gasoline that they ended up losing some of their contracts and the US made its own operations to procure fuel. I blame this more on the profit motive dealing against an organization with no supervision and unlimited resources. You could charge the military anything for whatever and there will be no audits and all it takes is someone to approve it and there you go. I went to school with idiots who acted like business took the example of the military structure in their practices when the exact opposite is not only true it is what more is needed. Right Perot? PE-RIGHT.
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Post by Rob G on Apr 22, 2004 22:47:13 GMT -5
Oh man, theres a lot here.
Egypt is all Arab Muslims. I think there is a small amount of chrisians that no one knows how that happened but really there are all Arab Muslims. The good kind, none of that She'ite Bullstuff. Still to my knowledge Egypt is not a democracy but just a bunch of fair rulers who seised power back in the 70's. I think Saddats number 2 man is still in charge but i will be damned if i cant think of his name. Wheres mister gault when you need him.
But for me Egypts governemnt is the only thing that works in muslim countries. They cant have democracy cause they will just kill whoever wins and then you'll need another election. Saddat himself was killed by some soldiers of egypt.
Buck, When you said Mushareef, are you talking about the general over in Pakistan. If you are that guy is great. Again, another benevolent dictator. They are gonna switch to Democracy cause thats what their dictator is ordering. ERRRRR, that makes tons of sense.
Buck, The distinctions you make between PLO and Al-queda, i just cant sign on for that. The guys who lost their houses are dead. The guys who took their houses are dead. All thats left is bunch of guys who were told "KILL THOSE GUYS" when they were young. And now none of them can live in peice due to the sins of their fathers. Wow, that was poetic. I feel like breaking ouit in song. To me Israel has been the much more willing to drop the hatchet. The PLO is like Maqui, he comes with the hatchet and will not leave with out his enemies bloood. But if you remember Maqui speaks poison with two tongues. And thats never good.
Now Concerning Sharon, hes the basterd that Palestine deserves. They had Barak in Israel. He wa sthe nicest guy ever. He was Israel's ultimate bid for peace. And the Palestinians just took advantage of him. So now they get Sharon. The Mr. T of prime ministers. And i dont pitty the fool. Sharon was elected on purpose to kick palestines ass. They triedit the other way and it was no good. So now their gonna try it this way. I knew it would all come down to the wire after 9/11. The US set a precedent now that everybody can take advantage of. Declare you enemies terrorists and none of the usual red tape will stand in you way. Yes this means the IRA too. Now i sympathise with the IRA but even in that situation i gotta say that battle was lost ages ago and its time to give it up.
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Post by abisai on Apr 23, 2004 17:20:42 GMT -5
Haha, good post, sounds like we're finally resolving to disagree and get on with more topics. I'd disagree about the people being wronged in the past as all dead; we're talking same generation that was liberated from Nazis and there aree plenty of Jews screaming Never Again and suing anyone who they can for WWII.
Yes, Mushroomteeth= Pakasistani supreme dictator.
It really makes me mad that the international arena equates US=Israel and PA=Al Quaeda and have done a lot to try and convince you guys otherwise. I give up. You're all wrong you Commy bastards. HA! At the very veyr least you have to admit that if the Arabs kicked all the Jews out of the Middle East our country might be a little safer from terrorist threats. And at the very least the longer the Jews leave it unresolved, we are a baby bit more at risk every day. I want us to kick ass and demand ultimatums. Stop pretending and pandering already, either kick one side out, come to understanding, or kill them all. To paraphrase Arnold in Conan "I have no time for it".
My prediction a la Conan OBrien, In the Year 2000.... Sharon gets assassinated. By a Jewish man. Hell breaks loose for a week and Arabs get killed by the truckload. Jews feel bad and buy the Palestinians a big boat and send them sailing to Mexico where they can start their lives over as illegal aliens in the United States.
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Post by Rob G on Apr 23, 2004 18:02:03 GMT -5
At the very veyr least you have to admit that if the Arabs kicked all the Jews out of the Middle East our country might be a little safer from terrorist threats. . Yes, I would admit that. But I truly believe that former governemnts of US and other white countries have used Israel as a pawn for the arabs to go after. Now I am about to enter dangerous Territory. So bad this whole board could be shut down. I dont know any jews and have only met a few. But being a reasonable student of history i observe that everybody in the entire world since the world has existed has hated the Jews. Whats the deal with that. Are they that bad. Or do they just have magnificent solidarity to the point where they ostresise anyone non-Jewish into hating them. And perhapos they are so successful that envy plays a part. Now all you gentiles speak to me of the ways of hebrews and the sons of abraham.
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Post by abisai on Apr 24, 2004 2:34:13 GMT -5
I've already spoken of Christianity as Jews For Jesus and there is a ton of creedence for that. But History proves that many people distrust the Jewish race. A vastly large part of it us their nonacceptance of outsiders and seclusion from the mainstream at the expense of being able to get along and they just do not ever accept converts. I have some Jews of various gradations in the extended family and the deal is if your mother ain't Jewish YOU THE GENTILE. Anyways, this means wherever they go they are in the vast minority. Minorities get shiit on. Especially when times are hard. Anyways, I also said Jews get good press. They have historically had a key role in financial institutions and yes, as money lenders. I don't know why this all happened, but maybe their insular nature allowed for a more trustworthy framework to deal with. They had no outsiders in their midst to threaten their operations and if they tried anything funny your government could probably have them all killed as a vast minority. Anyways, this Jewish hatred thing. What have we got? Freud thought Christians blamed Jews for killing their father-figure god ego striken desires emerged and vengeance was had. Sensational, but not really accurate. As a race the Jews were enslaved by Egyptians. Just like any race in that area that was not Egyptian, hardly a persecution targeting Jews and then they LET MY PEOPLE GO anyway. Romans treated them like second class citizens, just like they treated anyone in that area not Roman. Arabs ended up taking over the Promised Land and kicked out the Jews, but they just took the land and did not kill them all as they likely could have (I think). The extermination idea of Nazi Germany was the extreme that exceeded anything seen before or since, but I think they exploit that to perpetuate themselves as a race of underdogs forever crapped on from land to land. Gypsies could sing the same story but they don't. What is the difference? Jews had a long scholarly tradition and early on developed written histories to chronicle their struggles. Mustaffa and Joe-Boo still is not doing that, if you know what I mean. Later as they developed financially, they gained greater access and were despised by other minorities for their ability to prosper. And despised by the majority for being a minority. No longer could they fit into either class and they willingly accepted it. I am not downplaying the Nazi horrors. I am just saying that other peoples have stories they could tell, like the entire pre-European civilization in the Americas that actually was entirely eliminated, but either cannot or do not. I believe it is all due to them being a self-contained minority succeeding in upper classes and not joining mainstream society. -------------------------------\ Another Buckley anecdote beyond comprehension: A certain Jewish familly member told my parents he was taught factually in temple school as a boy that the Syrians killed Jesus and the Jews had no blame. My parents asked if he meant the centurians (Roman soldiers) and he got mad at them and hinted at them being anti-Semites for questioning his temple. WHOA. This was in the context of the Passion movie and he apparently thought that was perpatuation of our great Christian lie: about whp sent Jesus before the Romans for execution. I could state more on this....but wont. ------------------------------------\ Another Buckley anecdote beyond comprehension: I went to a friend's house to meet him after work and was waiting there talking to his mother (of course no one here on the boards!) Somehow Iraqi war came up and she talked about End Times and you could read the worries all over her face. The thing that was really sad was she was convinced the entire Western Hemisphere was going to be nuclear bombed off the planet. Her damning evidence was that there is no "United States in the Bible" that is an exact quote and when questioned she pointed to Revelation being entirely about Israel and the Middle East as if that region would be the only thing spared from Armageddon. WHOA! ----------- It is freaking late. Good evening. PS Someday I want to rehash the first post of this thread as I've thought more about it.
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JustBlowemOut of lYfe
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Post by JustBlowemOut of lYfe on Apr 24, 2004 7:35:58 GMT -5
PALESTINIAN-ARAB-ISREALI-IRAQI/TOWELHEAD= TERRORISTS. EVERY COUNTRY OVER HAS/HARBORS/OR SUPPORTS TERRORISM. THE ISREALIS JUST HAPPEN TO BE THE MOST ORGARIZED. THERE SET OF BALLS IS THE REASON WE SIDE WITH THEM. I DIDNT READ BUT TWO LINES OF RESPONSES NOR DO I CARE TO BECAUSE THEY ARE ALL FKUC UP OVER THEIR. THEY ARE ALL SICK PEOPLE WITH A FEW INNOCENT PEOPLE CAUGHT IN THE MIDDLE(MOSTLY AMERICANS). BLOW THEM UP NOW.
THIS SO CALLED "WAR" IS COSTING US $4.7 BIL A MONTH. IM SURE ALOT OF BOMBS CAN BE DROPPED FOR THAT, SO DO IT.WE LOSE MORE PEOPLE EVERY MONTH WE ARE THERE(EVERY HOUR).
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Post by Ken on Apr 24, 2004 10:39:01 GMT -5
I have had personal experience dealing with Jews and would like to offer my opinion.
Buck brought up a good point, if you aren’t Jewish, the Jews will never accept you. I have experienced this personally. When I went to Queens College, a predominantly Jewish institution; like 99% Jewish, 1% various others who weren’t wearing a yarmulke, I found it impossible to make any friends with Jews. They saw I wasn’t Jewish, saw I wasn’t wearing a yarmulke, had a last name that was similar to NAZI and I was just ostracized. It wasn’t a tangible thing; they just didn’t associate with me.
Secondly, I met a Jewish girl and started to date her. I had no idea how Jewish families were at the time, just that they were of a different religion. Thinking back, this Jewish chick must have been out of her mind to date a gentile, especially in her environment, but she fell for my long hair and leather jacket and the bulge in my pants, wink, wink, nudge, nudge. Well, I met her family and boy they almost schit the bed. I thought it was because of my long hair. WRONG. It was because I wasn’t Jewish.
Jews are so insular, it’s like a secret club you can never belong to and wouldn’t want to belong to anyway. They treat outsiders with passive-aggressive hostility if not open hostility.
Their weird mixture of “at-home family” conservatism, with “rest of the world” or “outside” liberalism, kind of marks them as hypocrites. In other words, as long as it concerns the Jewish family state, they are conservative, preferring to keep their families intact, promote Jewish values and keep their families strictly Jewish. But in regards to their opinions to the outside world, they are very liberal, preferring to let people do whatever they want as long as it doesn’t affect the Jewish at-home family state. In fact, they actively promote liberalism in the outside world in the gentile communities but stay conservative at home, an interesting and annoying dichotomy.
Even those Jews who are openly liberal in their approach to Judaism, are very conservative at home. Then of course, there is the Jewish mentality that everybody is out to get them.
All these factors make for a very annoying people. Do they deserve genocide, no. But they are nonetheless, annoying.
As for Israel, Buck and Rob both have great points. There is a solution that would solve America’s problem with the Middle East and Arabs in general. The United States needs to become less dependent on oil, any oil. I don’t know what the alternative is, electricity, nuclear, pig manure, etc. But if we cut out our need for oil, we cut out the Middle East completely, and the Middle East can just de-evolve until it rots from the inside.
Or we find new sources for oil other than the Middle East. Alaska? Siberia? Northern Canada? Obviously this is a long process but this country really needs to put alternative fuel source research as a priority so we can just stop dealing with these people.
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