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Post by Rob G on Dec 18, 2010 21:34:26 GMT -5
I dont know how to feel about this stuff. In fact if not for Bill O'reilly I would have no concept of "The War on Christmas".
The idea of a group of Atheists trying to crush religion seems strange to me. Religion seems like something you participate in or not. Participating in "Not religion" is silly.
I have never run into people actively trying to convert folks to Atheism. I run into lots of people trying to convert to religions. Even regular folks give me shit as I am an Atheist.
You do get those agressive atheists that wanna make poeple feel dumb so they lure the religions folks into factual arguments they cant win. Thats a really dick move. Because what if you use a logical argument against a person of faith and actuallly covince them. You just took their god away. Horrible thing to do.
So I guess maybe theres people doing this. They want religion done away with. Maybe this fear is heightened after 911. That whole deal seems nutty.
Then you have the fairness folks who I get much more. They dont want there to be any form of state sanctioned religion. everyone should be free to pratice or not practice whatever religion they want. They dont want any one religion forced on everyone as a whole. I think these folks try to change Chirstmas Vacation to something nuetral like Holiday Vacation. I am cool with this or not. I guess I dont give a shit. But I mean the Christian shit never offends me because I guess I was raised in a christian family neighborhood. I dont know if I would feel the same if the default religion was say Islam or Buddism.
But I think I would also argue that chistmas is beyound a religious thing. I mean i know very few people who even praise or recognise Jesus or his works on Christmas. If anyone gets worshiped its Santa. I dont know this is all tricky business
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Post by spiderfate on Dec 18, 2010 21:47:12 GMT -5
every few months a christian comes to my door spewing his bigoted filth, never has an atheist come to my door trying to convert me. Marx was right, religion truly is the Opium of the masses
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Post by Ken on Dec 19, 2010 10:11:11 GMT -5
Larry is never one to beat around the burning bush. ;D
I just posted the Bill O'Reilly article to generate a little conversation. In the past few years, this type of thing seemed to be reaching a fever pitch, the "anti-Christmas" crowd (whatever that means). It seems to have started with the political correct change from Merry Christmas to "happy holidays" and expand out from there. O'Reilly really targeted this stuff for the past few years and rallied people to stop saying happy holidays, but to proclaim pride in their Christian holiday and start saying Merry Christmas again. The movement was akin to a special interest group standing up and saying, "hey, where being persecuted here." That's what Christians did and the pendulum seems to have swung back to the middle and stayed there.
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Post by spiderfate on Dec 19, 2010 10:46:37 GMT -5
if i know someone is christian i say Merry Christmas, if i know someone is Jewish i say happy honika , if i knew some one is Buddhist i say... well i dont know any fucking Buddhists. if im unsure what religion someone is i wish them a happy holiday. the war on Christmas is just another conservative excuse to persecute any non- christheads . just another way conservatives oppress patriotic Americans while crying and whining about their own rights to hurt other people.
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Post by Ken on Dec 19, 2010 11:26:25 GMT -5
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Post by spiderfate on Dec 19, 2010 11:38:54 GMT -5
their is no god and THIS IS HELLLLL
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Post by Rob G on Dec 20, 2010 16:00:27 GMT -5
In dont even see the problem with wishing everyone a merry christmas. Its still a day. And even if your not celebrating I hope you have a good day that day.
I mean as long as your not being a dick about it like looking for anyone wearing a yamica and yelling merry christmas bitch.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- This was as Ken said a major O'rielly thing. This is how I took it. The fairness folks including the ACLU were trying to protect non-christians from being pressured to conform or be overly exposed to the one religion. I think they mean well.
The problem comes from the religious right. For them conservativism, morality, christianity are all intertwined. So any regress of the foothold christianity has in this country is seen as the further collapse of morality and American values.
So to combat this and to motivate the lazy masses they come up with the war on christmas. Talk about taking peoples Chrstmas away and you will get a response. As Ken said it seemed to have worked and now things are back where they were.
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Post by Ken on Dec 20, 2010 17:16:44 GMT -5
Happy Holidays Rob!!
I just wanted to include Rob as well in case he felt left out. Love ya bro.
Lar, you really aren't far off the mark about this being Hell. I really am in total agreement about that. In fact, a pastor was making a remark about a popular self-empowerment book entitled "This is Your BEST Life Now." He remarked that the title couldn't be more wrong, in fact, this is our WORST life now. Our BEST life will be when we die and go to heaven. It kind of clarified to me that this life is only a test, and we just have to get through it. So whenever life piles the shit so high on my shoulders that I feel like I'm going to buckle, I just tell myself, "this is my WORST life now."
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Post by Max Headroom on Dec 23, 2010 23:20:00 GMT -5
Makes as much as sense as pagans calling Christmas a war on paganism. My family goes to Church every Christmas Eve, but my wife's family prefers to attend mass on Christmas Day. Mass is not prerequisite for worship, but if there's no nativity, no mass, and no prayers involved maybe the event is a celebration and all that but not religious. Fine. Call the holiday season whatever the fuck you want to, that is about as offensive as calling Good Friday just plain Friday. It's my faith whatever you choose to feel or think about it.
Ken, a long time ago I fell into a thought process of finding meaning of a God putting us through all these trivial pains that seem to have no point except for the fact the point is to test us and our faith. What would be the point of a God that worked like DnD divine fury on a dime? That is not really faith, no more than we have faith in our cars because they drive when we turn the keys. Anyway, I make the point weirder than it needs to be, Romans spells out how suffering is core to the experience of Christianity.
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Post by Max Headroom on Dec 23, 2010 23:32:58 GMT -5
Anyone work where they put out wooden candles for Kwanzaa? Do atheists get upset about the brown candles too? I look at them as silly and a failed attempt at pluralism. I work with plenty of Indians and I don't see anyone throwing out Diwali lamps.
I feel either you admit 80%+ lean towards Christmas and go with that without any shame or just completely ditch the theme instead of trying to please everyone. As a Christian neither would offend me. As a rational person neither should offend. If I moved to India and worked surrounded by Hindus excited about their big holiday how can that possibly offend me?
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ring87
General Greivous
3rd density endgame.
Posts: 329
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Post by ring87 on Dec 25, 2010 18:08:42 GMT -5
Christmas is a pagan holiday. It's Mithra's (Sun God) day of greatest strength. No one knows Jesus's real birthday. It's not in the winter for sure according to the bible. (Stars and shepards and stuff).
The Christmas tree, is also pegan. As is the wreath and mistletoe. Easter and of course Holloween are pegan holidays as well.
To take part in any of the rituals associated with any of these holidays is strickly forbidden according to the bible.
The materialistic nature of the celebration of these holiday would for sure not be in accordance with the teachings of Jesus.
Anyway look up the history and rituals associated with any of these holidays yourselves.
Kind of Ironic. But then again....not really.
So happy holidays...
Now back to killing avatars of people on Call of Duty and having Nerf Gun fights. One god is very happy...but I'm not sure it's Jesus.
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ring87
General Greivous
3rd density endgame.
Posts: 329
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Post by ring87 on Dec 26, 2010 0:33:20 GMT -5
Let me follow the above statement by saying Christmas only means what you feel it means. If it's to make friends and family happy how could that be wrong.
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Post by Max Headroom on Dec 26, 2010 1:33:38 GMT -5
My favorite factoid about Christmas is the "red suit" is actually an animal fur worn inside out, so the bloody flesh parts are exposed except for the furry parts at the head and hands. This was some kind of shaman-like garb back in pagan Europe. Awesome that this was watered down to a crispy red and white similar to the evergreen tree literally detached from nature in plastic form.
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Post by Rob G on Dec 27, 2010 1:55:25 GMT -5
Remember when Santa showed up in Chronicles of Naria and he had a battle axe. Then gave weapons to all the children. that was awesome. Santa is such bad ass
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Post by Max Headroom on Dec 30, 2010 1:23:33 GMT -5
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