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Guns
Mar 10, 2006 13:12:04 GMT -5
Post by larr on Mar 10, 2006 13:12:04 GMT -5
when i have heard constitutional scholars talk on this subject they also brought up this point although i dont know where they get it , maybe the federalist papers. the point being that the right to bear arms not only was to defend against threats from without but also threats from with in i.e. military takeover of our own government. not that a group of citizens with assault rifles would be able to do anything against the modern army of the united states.
pete now that im in mty 30s i honestly could go either way on this subject, i mean i still dont think it should be regulated by the federal government, i believe strongly in the idea of states rights. some one told me once that there are so few guns in england that the police dont even have to carry fire arms which seems crazy to me. thanks pete im not totally sure where i was going with all this, i need to think about it somemore and basically hear some more opposing arguements.
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Guns
Mar 10, 2006 14:26:54 GMT -5
Post by Rob G on Mar 10, 2006 14:26:54 GMT -5
I shit on the right to bear arms. This amendament should be eliminated if for no other reason then for Gun Nuts to have to explain in intelligent and reasonable terms why they need the "Gun of Rambo".
If they could get the all guns back (including from the hoodlums) i would take them all and no one would have guns. Except for military, national guard, and lockers at police stations that require court order to open. England does something like this and it works great. Now granted you can kill someone with a stick. "Guns dont kill, people do". Yeah but guns make it really easy.
Lets get back to me shitting on the Right to bear arms.
Point 1: Language The term "Arms" was a essential a different word. Arms meant anything from a knife, sword, to a long barrel with gun powerder that could inaccuratly launch a lead ball maybe 100ft and took half a minute to reload. Now not only are their fully automatic hadnguns with armor piercing rounds, and sniper rifles which can kill from places unseen. But theres fricking missile launchers that can shoot tactical nukes. Its completely different and the differences constitute a reconsidering of the amendment.
Metaphorically, lets say in the future we master "The Wierding Way" (from Dune). This is where humans can use their voice to command or hynoptise. THe most proficient can actual kill with a single word. This might alter the effects of Freedom of speech.
Point 2: Context The right to bear arms was incorporated as part of a Free States neccessity to maintain a REGULATED Militia. At the creation of the bill of rights virtually every american had been called into these militias or armys to fight indians, french, englsih, canadians, etc. This shit used to happen every week. The other thought in mind harkoned back to Declaration of independeence where by if a government was unlawful it should be overthrown. Well we no longer need every citizen to have a gun. We no longer have any chance of overthrowing a government. And since nobody serves. Nobody has TRAINING. Which is a big part of the problem.
I think guns are bad all bad and nothing but bad.
But we cant get all the guns so what do we do. If nothing else No assault rifles NO automatic anything NO sniper rifles No grenades, Rocket Launchers, mortors, artillerry, etc
And you totally need a licence to both sell or buy.
All this being said, in the world we live in today I would like to carry a 22 everywhere i go. Keep a Barretta 9mm (The gun of Riggs) under my bed and multiple rifles at my house. All this because of shit i see on the news. It seems to me at this point that life is so long and this country so violent that sooner or later everyone of us will find ourselves in a violent gun involved confrontation. And i wanna have a say on how that turns out.
Pete I can understand why you want guns. Your not wrong. Your just less civilised. Infact it reminds me of this thing i heard one time. What was it...
"men can only be highly civilized while other men, inevitably less civilised, are there to guard and feed them." -----------Just Keep me safe you fuck
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Guns
Mar 10, 2006 17:34:14 GMT -5
Post by larr on Mar 10, 2006 17:34:14 GMT -5
yeah kinda understand what your saying rob, i mean i am the toughest person i know ive been in probally 50+ fights in my life, ive taken 3 different martial arts and one 98 lbs crackhead with a saturday night special can take my punk ass out with a simple tug of his finger. heres the reality of the situation the crackheads and the criminals already have the guns and aint gonna give them back so until they do, should normal law abiding citizens be able to have the piece of mind of having a gun in there home, so when dangerous minorities storm your texas compound you can defend yourself, well ok bad example but you get my meening.
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Guns
Mar 10, 2006 17:37:26 GMT -5
Post by larr on Mar 10, 2006 17:37:26 GMT -5
oh one more thing does any one remember that scene from preditor 2 when the gang member pulls out his gun on the business man in the subway and then all the commuter pull out guns, im not sure if that scenario would be good or bad.
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Guns
Mar 10, 2006 23:07:37 GMT -5
Post by Rob G on Mar 10, 2006 23:07:37 GMT -5
I remember it, Yeah that would be bad. Regular people should not have guns. Stock brokers who buy a gun for protection are bad. They dont know how to use it. Dont observe the proper safety protocols or maintainance of it. And then put them into a stressful confrontational scenario that they are not used to it and they are liable to shoot anything in the area. Themselves included. Or other people. I dont know how many of those tapes i have seen where store clerks buy guns. Then a robber comes in and the robber does not intend to shoot them. The robber just wants to scare them. But the Clerk pulls a gun and its not loaded or the safetys on or whatever. The bad guy shoots them dead. Its a disaster.
Still, I am equally as ignorant with guns. But i still want one for when the bad people come.
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Guns
Mar 12, 2006 15:42:04 GMT -5
Post by Ken on Mar 12, 2006 15:42:04 GMT -5
I think this thread, especially Pete and Rob, have hit the nail right on the head, i.e. the difference between reality and reason. I would love to live in a world without violence, where I could "reasonably" expect to bring up my child without fear of him/her being killed by some gun-toting lowlife, however, that just isn't "reasonable" to believe. Regardless of anything else, I have always been a pragmatist at heart, therefore I believe that guns are necessary, well, at least I believe that it is necessary for ME to have a gun. It is necessary for me to have a gun because I am responsible for the welfare and safety of my family. I am responsible for protecting my property and my home. Now, luckily, I live in a very safe neighborhood, and I rarely even look at my guns because I simply don't have too. I do keep them close, along with about 5 knives, two swords, and plenty of power tools that could easily dismember a human being.
Why do I do this? Because I am afraid. I am NOT afraid of the scumbag that may enter my house to rob me or kill me. No. What I am afraid of, and have always been afraid of, is not being READY for the scumbag who comes into my house to rob me or kill me. How would I feel if I was tied up in my bed, my wife being raped in the other room, and I was without a weapon because someone else decided it wasn't a good idea for me to have a gun in the house? Perhaps if I had the gun, I could have gotten to it before this asshole tied me up?
Now, am I saying that this fictional stock broker should be walking around with a gun? No. Should the store owner have the gun under his counter? If I was a store owner, I would because I would want to protect my property and my life. Ideally, we would all be trained to use it.
Fundamentally, on a Constitutional level, I do believe that everybody has the right to bear arms. If we give up this right, then the government wins. We still have the right to overthrow the government, and I am looking forward to the day when Conservatives overthrow the government and begin slaughtering liberals wholesale all over the country. I want to see decapitated liberal heads hanging from telephone lines like old sneakers in the Bronx so that Conservatives can use them for target practice. I want to see crows picking out their eyes, the sun withering the skin on the anguished, rigor-mortised faces, the rain washing their contaminated blood through the streets, the....ahem...sorry. Sometimes I get carried away.
Ahem...Revolutionary War, Viet Nam, Afghanistan... Guerilla warfare has proven to be very successful against a mighty military machine.
Back to reality vs. reason. Reality: the human race is violent by nature. The strong always look to control the weak, to get rich off the sweat of others, to exploit, on a personal one-on-one level, a national level and an international level. I think it is a mistake to trust that our government will always be for its people, regardless of its history. Our politicians are corrupt, they ignore public sentiment, take bribes, manipulate to stay in office. Why should we give up our arms to trust these people? The way I see it, it's just another layer of checks and balances.
By the way, what's this Karma thing under our names?
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Guns
Mar 13, 2006 0:30:07 GMT -5
Post by Rob G on Mar 13, 2006 0:30:07 GMT -5
The Conservatives have already overthrown the Government.
The Karma thing is some new feature here. I think if someone says something smart then you press the "Exalt" button under their name. It gives them 1 Karma.
If someone says something ignorant or beligerant. You hit "Smite" and it takes a Karma away. On larger boards i think this is a method of weeding out who the assholes are that should be ignored. Here its just another way to venerate Dave Buckley. That guy is a POST MASTER
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Guns
Jun 17, 2006 12:10:12 GMT -5
Post by SHOOT EM UP on Jun 17, 2006 12:10:12 GMT -5
IT IS INTERESTING I CAME ACROSS THIS TODAY. IN THE LAST 3 DAYS WED-FRI THERE HAVE BEEN 11 BREAK INS IN CHELSEA AREA 1 ON 9D 1 ON THORN ACRES 4 IN CHELSEA APTS 2 ON CHELSEA ROAD 3 ON RED SHOOLHOUSE ROAD
ALL DURING DAY LIGHT HOURS. WHEN I CAME HOME FROM WORK FRI ANDREA WAS LEARNING HOW TO LOAD THE PISTOL. I ALREADY KNOW HOM PLUS THERE ARE 8 AT MY DISPOSAL A SHOTTY AND AN M2 ALL SEMI NONE FULLY.
THE WAY I SEE IT IS UNLESS YOU CAN CLEAR ALL ILLEGAL GUNS OFF THE STREETS ANY WHO GETS ONE LEGALLY SHOULD BE MORE THAN WELCOME.
IT IS A BIG EFFORT TO GET A PERMIT FOR ANY GUN. YOU NEED 3 REFERENCES(USUALLY WITH PERMITS THEMSELVES) CLEAN BACK ROUND BLAH BLAH BLAH.
NOW IF I DIDNT HAVE ACCESS I WOULD GO OUT AND BUY A RIFLE JUST TO BE ABLE TO SIT AT HOME KNOWING WHEN SOME ASHPOLE WALKS THROUGH MY DOOR UNINVITED HE STANDS NO CHANCE. NOT THE SAME AS SITTING THERE WITH A KNIFE OR TAKING THE TIME TO LOAD A BLACK POWDER OR WAIT FOR 911 TO GET SOME ONE THERE.
IN TODAYS WORLD THE ONLY THING YOU CAN DO IS WATCH OUT 4 U AND THOSE AROUND YOU BUT WHEN THE SHIT HITS THE FAN YOU KNOW WHAT THEY SAY "DONT BRING A KNIFE TO A GUN FIGHT" WELL IM BRINGING THE ARSONAL TO THE SHOOT OUT.
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Guns
Jun 17, 2006 12:23:17 GMT -5
Post by SHOOTER on Jun 17, 2006 12:23:17 GMT -5
NOT THAT ALL PEOPLE SHOULD BE ENTITLED TO ONE BUT UNTIL YOU CAN CLEAR UP THE ILLEGALS YOU CAN GO PUNISHING THOSE WHO GO ABOUT THE RIGHT CHANNELS TO OBTAIN THEM. LIL JOHN MY 5 YR OLD SON AND HIS COUSIN 5 YR OLD PETE BOTH GO SHOOTING WITH THE BIG GUYS. PISTOLS RIFLES WHATEVER BUT THEY ALSO GET A SAFTEY LESSON BEFORE EACH TIME AND ARE BOTH AWARE OF THE CONSQUENCES OF PLAYING AROUN WITH GUNS.
YES 5 YR OLDS. TAUGHT THE RIGHT WAY NOW ARE MORE LIKELY TO GROW UP RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERS AS OPPOSED TO THE 5 YR OLD BLOODS GANG MEMBER WHO GOT THE SAME LESSON EXCEPT HIS WAS ON A CROWDED STREET CORNER AND SOME CRYPT MEMBER WAS THE TARGET.
SO WHILE THIS IS NOT WHAT OUR FORE FATHERS HAD IN MIND THEY ALSO GOVERNED A POPULATION OF 1 MIL MAYBE WITH 90% BEING RESPONSIBLE AND CRIMINALS WERE UNHEARD OF. DIFFERENT TIMES NOW WHERE ITS EASIER TO GET ONE ON THE STREET THAN TO DO I LEGALLY BECAUSE POLITICS RUINS EVERYTHING. GUN CONTROL AND GUN SAFTEY WHAT A JOKE. GUNS SHOOT BUT PEOPLE KILL.
JUST MAKE SURE IF YOU DO HAVE 1 OR GET 1 FOLLOW 1 RULE NEVER HAVE IT LOADED OR READY BECAUSE THE 4 SECONDS IT TAKES TO PUT THE CLIP IN COCK IT AND PULL THE TRIGGER IS THE LAST 4 SECONDS YOU HAVE TO THINK I AM ABOUT TO SHOOT SOME ONE.
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Guns
Jul 25, 2006 16:27:15 GMT -5
Post by Ken on Jul 25, 2006 16:27:15 GMT -5
My uncle sends me crazy emails....
FIREARMS REFRESHER COURSE
1. An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.
2. A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone.
3. Colt - the original point and click interface.
4. Gun control is not about guns; it's about control.
5. If guns are outlawed, can we use swords?
6. If guns cause crime, then pencils cause misspelled words.
7. "Free" men do not ask permission to bear arms.
8. If you don't know your rights you don't have any.
9. Those who trade liberty for security have neither.
10. The United States Constitution (c) 1791. All Rights reserved.
11. What part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand?
12. The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others.
13. 64,999,987 firearms owners killed no one yesterday.
14. Guns only have two enemies: rust and politicians.
15. Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety.
16. You don't shoot to kill; you shoot to stay alive.
17. 911 - government sponsored Dial-a-Prayer.
18. Assault is a behavior, not a device.
19. Criminals love gun control - it makes their jobs safer.
20. If guns cause crime, then matches cause arson.
21. Only a government that is afraid of its citizens tries to control them.
22. You only have the rights you are willing to fight for.
23. Enforce the "gun control laws" we have; don't make more.
24. When you remove the people's right to bear arms, you create slaves.
25. The American Revolution would never have happened with gun control.
26. "... a government of the people, by the people, for the people..."
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Guns
Jul 27, 2006 17:18:48 GMT -5
Post by Rob G on Jul 27, 2006 17:18:48 GMT -5
I say only guns available to the public should be single shot handguns for self defense.
Fuck hunters. If your a real hunter. Use a bow. I am ok with ranges were the guns stay at the club house.
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Guns
Aug 9, 2006 23:35:10 GMT -5
Post by abisai on Aug 9, 2006 23:35:10 GMT -5
I'm all for a militia brigade, fully stocked and independent of the federal or state government, requiring membership scrutiny. Other than that, people should not carry handguns... when I rule the world and submit all to the billy clubbing of their lives.
In local news though, two guys broke into a house here, so the homeowner shot one to death and the other went to the hospital. So I benefit from there being at least one of these gun nuts in the neighborhood who just happened to be sitting around his house with a loaded gun waiting for someone to break open his front door.
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Guns
Aug 10, 2006 20:40:44 GMT -5
Post by Ken on Aug 10, 2006 20:40:44 GMT -5
My biggest fear is not being prepared for something. In this case, some psychotic nut breaking into my house with the express purpose of killing my family. Maybe I won't be able to get to the rifle in time, thjen what do I do?
I'm thinking of creating my own version of a Batman Utility Belt that I could wear to bed. This way, I have all the tools I need to get myself out of a jam.
Or, I could just sleep in a locked bank vault.
Paranaoia, isn't it beautiful?
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Guns
Aug 30, 2006 2:44:00 GMT -5
Post by Rob G on Aug 30, 2006 2:44:00 GMT -5
That fucking awesome. Probably the coolest shit ever posted on this site. Thanx Pete.
I preatty much agree with everything this dude says. I'm a little agitated by his exaltation of his own juxtaposition within the spectrum of his conception.
The passage lends itself to encouraging its reader to become a Sheepdog. What frightens me is that my immediate response was wondering where the shepard fits in all of this.
It sounds like the sheepdog feels a little unappreciated by the sheep. And if our sheepdog be truly honorable then appreciation he does deserve. But as an ansilary benefit I would submit that the Sheepdog enjoys many of the amernities that the wolf does.
In the greater picture the ultimate goal is civilization and each should contribute according to his own strengths.
I suppose theres two great tenets being stated here. 1)Your the only person who you can trust to take care of you and yours. So be capable both physically and mentally to do so.
2)If you wanna enjoy the greater peace of mind that denial brings then SHOW some fucking respect and appreciation for those facing the grim realities and protecting your stupid ass and not just when their saving your ass.
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ring87
General Greivous
3rd density endgame.
Posts: 329
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Guns
Aug 30, 2006 7:35:29 GMT -5
Post by ring87 on Aug 30, 2006 7:35:29 GMT -5
Wow, I am not a veteran of fifty fights or a police officer. I did fire the biggest direct land bound fire arm on the planet. People would shit themselves if the stood to close when it went off. Woo-who. ;D That said. I have never been party to an event outside the army where a gun was necessary. I have never seen a gun pulled on others in "real" life. I have seen people target practice and hunt but I have never witness a situation that I would warrant a gun being used against a fellow human. I know criminals carry guns and hope I am smart enough to avoid them or at least a situation in which they would pull a gun on me. Let the police handle those guys. A hand gun is a weapon. It's sole purpose to kill another person period. A rifle can be use to hunt. It is also what I would chose to use in case we needed to oppose the government. Hand guns should not be carried by normal citizens and especially not by mall cops . Rifles should be allowed. Except to Rednecks or any person with an I.Q below 100. In which case they would be allowed a sling shot made off the finest rubber. Assault rifles.....wtf. Come on....I know some Branch Davidians would disagree. If you want to shoot automatic weapons join the Army. I hear there are quality moving targets in Iraq.
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