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Post by Ken on Nov 12, 2004 10:00:05 GMT -5
I watched his burial today at his compound. The Palestinians were like animals, swarming around his coffin, trying to touch it, almost knocking it over several times. They originally were going to have a very stately funeral, with people speaking in his honor, but they couldn't even do that because all the Palestinians were crawling over the walls, buildings, cars, etc. They couldn't even bury their leader in peace. It was so disgusting.
Personally, I'm glad the bastard is dead. He didn't want peace, he wanted to be a professional, life-long victim and he wanted his people to be viewed the same way, even when the Isreali's offered him plenty of land and even parts of Jerusalem. He was scum. Will the next leader be any better?
Personally, I thought the Isreali's should have dropped a few MOABs on the crowd. Most of the Palestinians would have been killed off in a single instant. Instant peace.
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Post by Rob G on Nov 12, 2004 17:24:49 GMT -5
I agree. Arafat was shit. The palestinians are shit. But i bet DKB has a different take....
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Post by abisai on Nov 13, 2004 10:59:49 GMT -5
OK fine, here you go: as I heard a dude say on radio from Palestine when asked what Arafat was now to the region: HISTORY.
The real question is how long was he dead before they had the actual balls to announce it? This has been coming a long time and practically from the moment he touched down in Paris he was on life support.
In the past 40 years this man has personified the Palestinian cause. Internationally, locally, socially, everything. His little compund that was raided by the Israelis symbolized their entire cause. Note: they had to bring in bulldozers to clear rubble from the area in order for them to find a burial plot within that compound. As their figurehead dies, where does this leave the Palestinians? Lost for damn sure. New leadership had not emerged in the past 40 years, no reason to suspect that it will now. The Israelis will continue to proceed without negotiating and the Palestinians will continue living in a war-state. I suspect that the terrorist groups will gain new fervor and recruit in droves. Arafat came to represent a diplomatic approach in his methodology. Now they have no diplomats. But there are plenty of radicals out there and no internal presence to keep any of them in check. When they took the guns from the PLO that robbed them of the physical ability, but Arafat's imposing death removes the general diplomatic reigns that prevented mass suicides bombs. Sure there are plenty now, but bombs have gotten a lot more explosive in the past 40 years and the population there keeps growing, so I would submit it would have been much worse without a countervaling force internally.
Regionally, the Arabs needed a posterboy for the Palestinians. Saudi terrorists and al quaeda idiots can claim to bear that mantle, but it is not credible and it is not their cause. The Arabs need someone to voice concerns so that they can wave them to the world and fight without bombs.
My prediction: Arabs in region finance some yokel to pretend to be Arafat's heir. PLO denies his legitimacy, so Israel agains can claim it has no one to negotiate with. Israel proceeds according to its' designs, which includes ceding back 3% of the occupied territory, fencing in the rest with concrete barriers, and periodic seek and destroy missions. Of course the terrorist groups will respond heavily and the situation worsens.
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Post by abisai on Nov 13, 2004 11:06:41 GMT -5
What this will do is bring someone new in and he will say even more radical things and Israel will get more scared and bomb more Palestinians. It's not like Hama is going to say ok you win, let's elect John Kerry our leader and give each other big hairy man hugs and plant some damned flowers with Peace Frogs playing on the radio - that hasn't happened in any of the many killings of Palestinian leaders. This. If the US wanted to we could really pull the rug from under Israel, but Wolfowitz would never allow that to happen, let alone the Jewish outcry nationally and internationally it would cause. What I would love is if we cut financing we provide to both sides, sever negotiations with either side and tell people to solve their own damn problems... Maybe give them year of that and come back in with tanks if they have not. We would have a different definition of am Israeli solution, so I would hope we could define a better peace. But none of that will happen. Just more pain, misery, and suffering. It will get much worse before it gets any better.
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Post by Rob G on Nov 14, 2004 3:16:07 GMT -5
Yeah buck i think you are right.
Bush's people are telling him there is an opportunity here. Bush is extreme in his measures so I expect him not to try and be balancing. I expect Bush will back Israel to the hilt. At this point I have zero sympathy for the palestinians. I dont care how many people have to die on either side as long as the killing stops and the innocent children can be raised in relative harmony and allowed to pursue something other then hatred and killing,
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Post by larry g on Nov 15, 2004 16:52:46 GMT -5
you dont care how many people have to die as long as the killing stops. that makes no sence
i dont care how many people get high as long as people dont get high.
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Post by abisai on Jan 16, 2005 11:48:02 GMT -5
Israel has severed ties with Palestinian leader Abbas. They blame him for not rounding up the bombers already. The militants blame him for not stopping Israel from killing Arabs at will. He has publically asked both sides to stop in the interests of peace. Israel is still on seek and destroy in Gaza and the militants there are not laying down. All they need now is someone to step up as posterboy for the militants and Abbas will be completely detroused and Ariel Sharon will get to say he has no negotiating partner again. Again, I expect foreign money to fund a new leader from the militant side of things.
I'm nearly done with Imperial Hubris. It is a great book. It doesn't touch much on Palestine and lends itself more towards Afghanistan. I'll report when done.
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Post by Rob G on Jan 16, 2005 16:55:30 GMT -5
you dont care how many people have to die as long as the killing stops. that makes no sence i dont care how many people get high as long as people dont get high. You misunstand. I will elaborate. Death comes to us all. Death is ok. Its living in terror which bad. I say let it all go down and maybe lots will die. But those that live will be able to live in peace. The children can be raised to become people who contribute to a society and not killers training killers to no eventual end.
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Post by Ken on Jan 16, 2005 21:27:37 GMT -5
If all-out war happens, eventually, after years of warfare, people will lose their taste for it, and seek peace, either that or genocide will eventually wipe out one side and there will be peace.
Disclaimer: Ken in no way advocates this course of action. Ken may be just philosphizing and/or talking out of his ass. If he is in fact, talking out of his ass, please excuse the smell.
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Post by larry g on Jan 17, 2005 0:29:28 GMT -5
as much as i hate the palistinians they are freedom fighters. they are usung guerilla tactics against a occupying force. what would we do if our country was taken over by arabs backed by an undeafable nation from another planet. i would probally be blowing something up to. the only real conclusion is to pull all support from israel and let them fend for them selves, whi8ch would solve alot of american problems.
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Post by Ken on Jan 17, 2005 12:16:22 GMT -5
The Jewish voting block is way to big for that course of action.
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Post by abisai on Jan 17, 2005 15:07:36 GMT -5
www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/03statab/pop.pdf(Page 67 on pdf link) These are stats directly provided through Census Bureau. Per this data projections: in 1990 there were 151.5 million Christians out of 175.4 million people in the US in 2001 these increased to 159.5 million of 207.9 million Jewish people decreased in population from 3.1 million to 2.8 million over same time period Muslims doubled from .5 million to 1.1 million Linked via Census is this place: www.arda.tm/It estimates higher at 5.9 million in 1990 and 6.1 million in 2000, for 2.7% of a total population of 137 million in 1990 and 141.3 million in 2000 Jewish people are not a significant voting block by a long measure, at 2% per this data. There are as many Mormons in the US and they are not even considered a voting entity that politicians pay any mind to in the least. Even if they all voted alike and there were twice as many as report themselves to be Jewish, we're talking 4-5% of the population. Moreover, limited largely to NYC area and the LA metroplis. The other 95%+ of us could benefit from ignoring the under 5% that put the other 95%+ of us at risk when they want to pursue things that jeopardize the majority at large.
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Post by abisai on Jan 17, 2005 19:56:52 GMT -5
A Catholic archbishop in Iraq was abducted by terrorists.
The Vatican outspokenly opposed the war and this particular man was born in Iraq. This is about as unfounded an attack as can possibly be.
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Post by Rob G on Jan 18, 2005 0:13:31 GMT -5
www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/03statab/pop.pdf(Page 67 on pdf link) These are stats directly provided through Census Bureau. Per this data projections: in 1990 there were 151.5 million Christians out of 175.4 million people in the US in 2001 these increased to 159.5 million of 207.9 million Jewish people decreased in population from 3.1 million to 2.8 million over same time period Muslims doubled from .5 million to 1.1 million Linked via Census is this place: www.arda.tm/It estimates higher at 5.9 million in 1990 and 6.1 million in 2000, for 2.7% of a total population of 137 million in 1990 and 141.3 million in 2000 Jewish people are not a significant voting block by a long measure, at 2% per this data. There are as many Mormons in the US and they are not even considered a voting entity that politicians pay any mind to in the least. Even if they all voted alike and there were twice as many as report themselves to be Jewish, we're talking 4-5% of the population. Moreover, limited largely to NYC area and the LA metroplis. The other 95%+ of us could benefit from ignoring the under 5% that put the other 95%+ of us at risk when they want to pursue things that jeopardize the majority at large. YES DKB for President
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Post by Rob G on Jan 18, 2005 0:16:59 GMT -5
A Catholic archbishop in Iraq was abducted by terrorists. The Vatican outspokenly opposed the war and this particular man was born in Iraq. This is about as unfounded an attack as can possibly be. This is a brilliant move on their part. They want to make this Muslums vs Judao-Christians, or more appropiately The people of god (Allah) vs the infidels This move serves that purpose especially well. I wonder how far the Vatican can be pushed before they start taking muslums religious leaders.
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