no green for nadar

[larry g]

MILWAUKEE, Wisconsin (Reuters) -- The Green Party on Saturday refused to back Ralph Nader in his independent run for the White House, a move that could reduce his chances of being a factor in this year's election.

Delegates to the half-million-member party's presidential convention voted to nominate party activist David Cobb, a California lawyer who led the delegate count going into the meeting.

On the second round of voting, Cobb captured 408 delegates, more than the 385 needed to gain the nomination.

"What you have here before you are working class people who have demonstrated that it is possible to build a political party on principles and values -- without corporate money and without selling out," he told a lively crowd after he won the nomination.

"Ralph Nader has had more influence on my life than anyone who is not a direct relative. I am a lawyer because of Ralph Nader. Without Ralph Nader, this nomination wouldn't have happened," Cobb added.

Nader had not sought the party's nomination but said he would have accepted either that or an endorsement as a possible route to getting on the ballot in 22 states and the District of Columbia. The party earned those ballot positions as a result of its showing in 2000 when Nader headed its ticket.

The consumer rights advocate just days ago chose veteran Green Party politician Peter Camejo as his vice presidential running mate in an attempt to attract support from the party.

As an independent, Nader has been trying to consolidate support from third parties as well as disaffected Democrats and Republicans. He had already been endorsed by the Reform Party, giving him potential access to ballots in seven states where it won access.

Losing the Green Party's support could make it all the more difficult for him to get on the ballot in every state. He has been trying to round up signatures in as many states as possible and Democrats have indicated they will scrutinize those efforts and challenge them when validity questions arise.

In choosing Cobb, the Greens picked a candidate who spent the last eight years visiting 40 states, working at the grass-roots level to build ties between environmental and labor movements.

As the Green candidate in 2000, Nader drew 2.7 percent of the popular vote, but Democrats saw him as a spoiler who sapped strength from former Vice President Al Gore in battleground states, including Florida, where Nader drew 97,488 votes.

Gore won the popular vote nationally but lost the weighted electoral college vote -- and the election -- to President George W. Bush, losing Florida by 537 contested votes.

[abisai]

This was no shock. Green party announced long ago it wanted nothing to do with Nader, since last time round brought them such grief from supposed liberals and Democrats. Water under the bridge except... nader's VP candidate is a Greeney too. What happens when third parties cannabalize each other? They ALL LOSE.

Anyhow, I watched Cobb's coming out party (politically, not sexually) on C-Span. This guy is NO politician. He is full of energy though. He used many words that were off-base. I forget the one he kept using, but the point is the way the guy spoke would lose existing voters, not gaining others. His VP is a lady. She seems smart and a better candidate for president than him, maybe that will happen next time.

I still persist in thinking most Nader voters come from people disinterested in main parties and who would either not vote or not vote for 2 main parties anyway. I mean, the leading political belief in the nation is "NONE". as most people do not bother voting and those that do often switch parties based on circumstance.

[abisai]

Warning: lost post, but gets better as it goes on, if you can hang on that long. Poor Ralphy got abandoned by Michael Moore and isn't letting it be water under the bridge. The last letter is just mad at the guy and the best one, but I included all to provide a backdrop.

April 16th, 2004:
www.votenader.org/why_ralph/index.php?cid=54
"Friday April 16, 2004
Hey Dude Where's My Buddy!!!
Come Back Home Michael!!!
Ok Michael, you've had your realpolitik fling with ex-General Wesley Clark. Your endorsed Presidential candidate in the Democratic Primaries has withdrawn. It is time for you to come home, to join your buddies and resume your only genuine role which is that of defiance and resistance. Compliance and assistance with the Democrats does not accord with your past, your character, your bold writings and, most memorably, your long corrosive assaults on the Party that betrayed the working classes and plunged our country into corporate globalization. Remember, Michael, you're the flinty man from Flint, Michigan. You've never forgotten your roots. The heady Hollywood, Manhattan scene with the celebrities and Academy Awards have never gotten to your head but rather have gotten into your deserving pockets. How we all recall your standing before one billion people in Los Angeles at the televised Academy Awards in 2003 and, breaking the customary cant of the awardees, throwing the gauntlet down to George W. Bush and his "fictitious" war mongering.

Now the War has become a quagmire, with both Republicans and Democrats complicit (check the votes in Congress). The Draft may be on the way. So what are you doing going on the Al Franken Show very nearly breaking down when Al Gore (he of the pro NAFTA/GATT, anti-worker, regime-change, Iraq-bombing, lethal sanctions on half a million children Administration) called and thought you were apologizing. You have nothing to apologize for, Michael. Gore has a lot to apologize for-blowing the election he won in Florida and the country as a whole and for blowing, with Bill Clinton, the many opportunities the rich-booming Nineties and the collapse of the Soviet Union gave this country to turn a peace dividend into a pro-worker, pro-environment, pro-consumer and anti-poverty resurgence.

Come back and join our Presidential campaign, Michael. Talk to those "Reagan Democrats"-those 35% of union members who still vote Republican and against their own interests-as only you can. Michael, if you go pumping for the Democratic Party this year, just what are you going to say to the unemployed steelworkers near Sparrows Point in Maryland? To the megathousands of laid off textile and furniture workers in North and South Carolina? To the abandoned auto workers waiting and waiting near their empty factories that went to repressive countries? To the millions of blue-collar workers, who fought our wars, only to learn that the two parties won't fight for their company pensions and health insurance? Are you going to tell them how the Democratic Party pushed through the WTO, let their pensions erode or disappear, were too busy collecting checks from the corporate bosses to pay attention to the corporate crime wave that looted and drained trillions of dollars from millions of workers, their retirement and small investments? Will you tell them that the cowardly Democrats, who couldn't win the fewer elections they are now not losing without the labor vote, won't even mount a determined drive to repeal the notorious, union-blocking Taft Hartley Act?

How can you be free to be what you are, or to depress Bush's vote, to jolt into consciousness the moribund Democratic Party?

Hey Dude, join your real buddies! The ones you may be thinking about just don't fit either your message, your vision, or our website VoteNader.org.

Come back home Michael. The workers and the youth of America are looking for you.

Best regards,


Ralph Nader

P.S.Will you put this invitation on your website and see how your fans react to Michael Moore returning to the Nader 2004 presidential campaign? Patti Smith will reserve a big singing spot, for you, on the stage for the customary finale, PEOPLE HAVE THE POWER."

June 24th, 2004:
www.votenader.org/why_ralph/index.php?cid=83
"Hey, Michael, Where Were Your Friends?
Once upon a time, there was Michael Moore the First. He never forgot his friends. Come time for the Washington, DC premiere of Bowling for Columbine a while back, he invited his old buddies in Washington—gave them good seats and spent the rest of the evening with them. During his other movie's premiere, he affectionately recognized how much those old friends helped him and supported him after he was mistreated and let go by Mother Jones. He was generous with his words and time.

Now there is Michael Moore the Second. Last night he hosted the Washington, DC premiere of Fahrenheit 9/11, and who was there? The Democratic political establishment, the same people whom he took to such mocking task on the road with us in campaign rally after campaign rally in 2000. Who was not there? His old buddies! Not personally invited, not personally hung out with.

A few weeks ago, Michael, I sent you a message: "Hey, Dude, where's my Buddy?" It is attached. It has gone without reply. It simply asked you to come back to your progressive constituency and take on the two-party monopoly of our rigged election system—to challenge the pro-warlike, corporate party with two heads, wearing different makeup when it comes to playing toady for Big Business. These are the giant multinationals who have no allegiance to our country or to communities like Flint except to control, deplete or abandon them. It is not that your views have changed, with an exception or two. It is that your circles have changed. Too much Clinton, not enough Camejo.

Your old friends remain committed to blazing paths for a just society and world. As they helped you years ago, they can help you now. They are also trim and take care of themselves. Girth they avoid. The more you let them see you, the less they will see of you. That could be their greatest gift to Moore the Second—the gift of health. What say you?

Best wishes,

Ralph Nader"

July 5th, 2004:
www.votenader.org/why_ralph/index.php?cid=89

"Hey Michael, Where’s Your Past?
The saga of Michael the Second continues. From a stalwart collaborator before huge rallies in our 2000 Nader/LaDuke campaign to a puzzling sidelines posture, to an endorsement of Wesley Clark, you have perplexed more than a few of your admirers.

Now you have declared in the June 24, 2004 issue of USA Today that you "hope to have a significant impact on the 4 to 6% who now say they are going to vote for Ralph" to vote for Kerry. Wow! That’s a long way from Michael of Flint and Michael of Washington, DC. You are some traveler.

On "The Charlie Rose Show" last Thursday you repeated the false statement that I promised to avoid the close states in 2000 and therefore you broke away from the campaign in the last month and urged a vote for Gore. Strange – you were berating Democrats before nearly 10,000 people at our MCI Rally on November 5 – two days before the election. If you would like to see a copy of the tape of your speech let me know. And, you campaigned with us in some of those close states. I have called you on this false assertion regarding the close states yet you keep repeating the falsehood. Our 2000 Campaign was a 50 state run, (and I campaigned in all 50 states) from the beginning, a point repeated again and again, even though I spent 28 days in California and only 2 ½ in Florida.

In my last message to Michael the Second I mistakenly believed that your views had not changed, with an exception or two, "It’s that your circles have changed. Too much Clinton, not enough Camejo," I observed. Now on "The Rose Show" you, the great freedom fighter, urged us to withdraw, urged rejection of the opportunity for millions of Americans to vote for a candidacy of their choice and a good agenda for their future.

So the anti-war Michael supports the pro-war Kerry; the anti-Patriot Act Michael supports the pro-Patriot Act Kerry; the pro-tax on corporations Michael supports the low tax on dividends and capital gains Kerry. What ever happened to the great resister?

Do you think any of the corporate lobbies are quaking in anticipation of a Kerry win, e.g. the military industrial complex (to use Eisenhower’s warning phrase), the pharmaceutical, nuclear power, banking, securities, insurance, petrochemical, agribusiness, biotechnology, real estate and fossil fuel industries. The corporate government in Washington is the permanent government – as you well know.

Oh well, we thought we knew ye, Michael. At least while you mingle with the people born to the purple and other nouveau riche, you’ll still wear your working clothes and keep your cap on real tight as you bend to the wind.

Best wishes for future films,

Ralph Nader"

[abisai]

;D
In other news he was slated to debate Howard Dean on NPR about his bid for president instead of supporting Democratic effort to remove GW from power. Dean and NPR, could it be any less relevant? I have no clue when this is going down, if it will be televised, or if the thing was cancelled or happened already. I think it will be July 9th, but all their sites SUCK A.SS and are elusive about real meaningful information about this supposed event.

In the meantime, other fun excerpts from Nader's homepage:
"The deceptive butterfly ballot, which Democratic officials approved, cost Al Gore the election."
"Playing the "what if" game, Gore cost Gore the election in Tennessee, Arkansas, and each of the presidential debates."
"Buchanan cost Bush four states (Oregon, Iowa, Wisconsin, and New Mexico)."

Most important to validating something I believe and standby as a valid argument to counter the story told about the 2000 election:
"Moreover, a Democratic exit poll showed that Ralph’s votes came 25% from Republicans, 38% from Democrats, and the rest were nonvoters who would have only voted for Ralph. In other words, more than sixty percent of Ralph’s voters would NOT have voted for Gore. In New Hampshire, exit polls showed that Ralph "took more votes" from Republicans than Democrats, by a 2 to 1 margin."

[LARRY G]

INTERESTING CAPTAIN, FIRST LET ME SAY I LIKE NADER MORE THEN KERRY BUT A THIRD PARTY CANDIDATE CANT GET ELECTED I CAME TO THAT HARD TRUTH IN THE FIRST BILLCLINTON ELECTION WHEN I VOTE FOR GOOD OLD ROSS PEROT, HE WAS THE BEST CHANCE OF EVER GETING A MODERATE PRESIDENT. FOR ALL THE MILLIONS HE SPENT AND THE PERFECT PLATEFORM IN MY HUMBLE OPINION HE COULD ONLY PULL 20% OF THE POPULAR VOTE AND NOT A SINGLE STATE.

THAT BEING SAID ,I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR A DEBATE BETWEEN NADER AND DEAN. I THINK IT WOULD BRING UP ALOT OF GREAT TOPICS BUT IN FACT NADER IS MORE LIBERAL THEN DEAN BELIEVE IT OR NOT I READ HIS POSITION STATEMENT AND IT WAS MORE LIBERAL THEN AN Y OTHER CANDIDATE RUNNING, IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY. THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS I HATE LIBERALS ALMOST AS MUCH AS CONSERVATIVES BUT HIS VIEWS MAKE SENCE . IE IF YOU BELIEVE GAYS DESERVE ALL THE RIGHT OF AMERICANS THEN YOU HAVE TO SUPPORT GAY ADOPTION WHICH HE DOES. ATLEAST HE SAYS WHAT HE STANDS FOR INSTEAD OF HIDING BEHIND BULLSHIT LIKE KERRY DOES.

[abisai]

I dream of a day when a benefactor like a Perot backs someone with meaningful things to say like a Nader and tells it in a convincing way (Nader is just not personable person and never will be). The un-popularity of Nader is true. I think they just relabel the margin of error the Nader campaign when they take these polls.

A Dean/Nader debate would be interesting. But this event seems to be based entirely around the arguments for and against Nader running for office - 90 minutes was the time mentioned alloted. I bet this will be a C-SPAN thriller, right up there with the Richard Clark testimony before the 9/11 Commission. Meaning: no will actually watch, but reporters will put it out there in mainstream and it will be a watercooler conversation for about a day or two, more if something funny happens. I hope Nader really does get up in his arse as I know he really can. That is his strong point, getting up people's arses. "Nader for Pres, he can ram-rod like nobody's business".

At heart, I am all about egalitarianism and equal rights, so Nader being a champion for those causes is encouraging. To me that also includes a color blind policy, but at least he has historical and legal arguments to back his s.hit up. Again, Nader is all about the almighty a.ss

[LARRY G]

I SAW SOME OF THE HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE DEBATE. I THOUGHT NADAR DID QUITE WELL. HE WAS ALITTLE OUT CLASSED BUT HE STUCK TO HIS GUNS AND FAUTGHT LIKE A TRUE LIBERAL LION. MUCH PROPS FOR NADAR.

[Ken]

DAMN! I missed the debate because my wife wanted me to take her to The Christmas Tree Shops. (Marriage is great).On the upside, I went to Barnes & Noble and got the new War of the Spider Queen book, "Annihilation."

[abisai]

I missed everything. Even worse, the story is hard to find and I think C-SPAN is not broadcasting it again. HEY, when my wife takes me to Barnes and Noble all we ever get is coffee, I've got to make some changes around here pronto.

To hear all 1 hour's worth of blabber:
www.c-span.org/Search/basic.asp?ResultStart=1&ResultCount=10&BasicQueryText=nader+dean

Here's the Fox News version:
www.foxnews.com/story/0%2C2933%2C125253%2C00.html
"In a lively radio debate Friday, the former Democratic presidential candidate tried to get Ralph Nader to abandon his long-shot White House bid. Nader, the man Democrats blame for George W. Bush's election in 2000, declined and vowed to continue his independent campaign.

"Ralph, I think you're being disingenuous about your candidacy this year, and let me tell you why," Dean began at start of the debate. "Forty-six percent of all your signatures to get you on the Arizona ballot turned out to be Republican supporters. You accepted the support of a right-wing fanatic Republican group that's anti-gay in order to help you get on the ballot in Oregon."

"This is not going to help the progressive cause in America," said Dean, who has been urging his supporters to stay within the party and vote for Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry.

Nader quickly dismissed the criticism, telling the studio audience that Dean was engaging "in a desperate attempt to smear our campaign."

The former Vermont governor then tried flattery.

"You have an extraordinary career in standing up for the American people. You have saved lives with your extraordinary work with automobile safety," Dean told the consumer advocate. "I wish you were on our team, Ralph, because we really need you."

Nader again was unmoved and promised not to surrender for the sake of his supporters.

There were some lighter moments during the hour-long debate, which was sponsored by National Public Radio's "Justice Talking" program.

Nader drew laughter when he called Dean "an insurgent who is now adopting a role of being a detergent of the dirty linen of the Democratic Party." Even Dean chuckled over that remark.

The crowd also roared when Dean was asked if would accept a Cabinet position in a Kerry administration. Dean said he hadn't "made any deals like that, but if Ralph comes on board maybe we can both get Cabinet positions."

Since Nader announced his campaign in February, Democrats have beseeched him not to run. Many Democrats blame him for taking votes from Al Gore in such razor-thin states as Florida and helping ensure Bush's victory in the 2000 election.

Nader has yet to make it on any state ballot independently. He has been endorsed by the national Reform Party, which has ballot lines in seven states, including the battlegrounds of Florida and Michigan. He was rebuffed by the Green Party when it declined to endorse him last month."

DKB- d**n RALPH, not one state yet? WTF? Larry, does Fox News paint this as you saw/heard it?