The Terminater Therum

[Rob G]

The Terminater therum:
Confused by time travel. You’ve come to the right place. Heres what I gathered from the terminater series.

Original timeline: (before any time traveling)
Sarah Conner gets pregnant from some guy shes dating and has son. She raises him alone. Judgement day occurs in the inevitable year of 2003. John Conner become head of resistence and eventually in the future The First original evil Arnold terminater is sent back to kill sarah conner. Kyle Reese, best friend of john conner is sent back to stop him.

1st Movie (1st time deviation):
Kyle Reese arrives and sarah conner never gets to screw the guy who should have been John Conner’s father. Instead she screws Kyle reese and hes the father. It makes little difference as either father wont be arround later. Kyle reese is killed and the terminater destroyed. However, pieces of the terminator are found and end up at Cyberdine systems where they utilise the technology and speed the process of Sky net. Judgement day is reached at the premature date of 1997. John Conner still becomes head of the resistence. Now john conner remembers everything that happened to him as a child. This time skynets sends back 2 terminators. The first exactly as before, the second to strike at John conner himself. Perhaps in this altered timeline there are better records of John conners whereabouts as a child. This second terminator is of course the T-1000. John conner sends Kyle reese back as he know he must do. In addition he sends back a reprogrammed Arnold to stop the T-1000.

2nd Movie (2nd time deviation (the loop))
The events of Terminater 1 occur the same or very similar to what we saw. In the year 1994 the T-1000 arrives. He is destroyed. The good Arnold terminater takes sarah conner through a chain of events that has her and little john conner discover the remains of the first terminater. These pieces are thus destroyed erasing the premature occurrence of judgement day. Unfortunatly Judgement day will still occur on its original inevitable year of 2003. However this new timeline while it is very similar to the original timeline it is different due to the arrivals of so many terminaters in the past giving john conner information he will use in the furture. As we reach the furture in this timeline 2 terminators are sent back just as before. John Conner knowing the deal sends back Kyle reese and the good Arnold terminater to stop them. Sometime after this John conner is killed by yet another Arnold terminator. John Conner’s surviving wife Kate Brewster reprograms this terminater and has it join the resistence. She soon discovers that the machines have now sent back another terminater. The TX to kill John conner’s lieutenants. John Conner is no longer an imperitive threat as he is dead. Kate Brewster is the most important target. Kate Brewster sends back the good Arnold terminater to stop the TX.

3rd Movie (3rd deviation)
The TX arrives and is eventually killed by good Arnold terminter who also dies. But some of John Conner Leitenents are killed. The furture progresses not so differently unless of course those of John Conners Leutnenets who were terminated were to hold some great role that will now be missed.

Conclusion:
After all the shit that happened in all 3 movies the future is basically the same as though there were no time traveling. T2 is essentially a time loop that is corrected at its conclusion. The success in T2 only avoided the alternate future created by the events of T1. Ofcourse Judgement day is inevitable. They should have considered this. Though the furture is very similar to what it should have been theres no reason why it cant still deviate.

What Next:
Well we know Terminater 4 will chronicle the actual war of the machines and will end in victory presumedly.

But What after that:
John Conner has knowledge of all 3 movies events including the fact that he will be killed by an Arnold terminater some day. Not that this knowledge should help him avoid this death as we can assume any john conner in any timeline is on the look out for terminaters. For me it seems logical that John Conner (or his wife or his son) having all this knowledge might just get proactive. Judgement day is not totally inevitable. If you kill the guy who decided to create sky net there no way these exact same circumstances can occur again. Thus it seems to me the resistence should send back a Terminator to kill the founder of skynet. Imagine that as the plot of Terminater 5. Theres an evil Arnold terminater killing shit left and right but hes actually on the cause of good.

Is more good:
I liked all these movies but at some point it must become redundant. Terminater 17, They send back one million terminaters to wage war on Los Angeles. Terminater 18, they send another terminater back to kill John Conners ancestor Abe Lincoln. I am happy with the series as is. Terminater 4 is already moving ahead and should be the last one. But I personally will keep watching forever.

[The Nasinator]

;D

I just finished watching T3. I liked the movie, and as Rob has stated, I will watch all of the Terminators up to and including Terminator 100. The movie doesn’t shed much light on anything except that this particular Arnold Terminator was responsible for killing John Connor in the future.

The best part of this movie however, was the last 5 minutes of the movie. The scene with the nukes taking off and then the panoramic view of the planet as the missiles hit their targets was great.

As for the timeline, in T2, they were successful in altering the timeline in that Judgment Day was put off for a while. Sarah Connor lives up until the original date of Judgment Day and nothing happened. This could have significant ramifications.

1. If John Connor would have got his shit together and been extra careful or even paranoid, he could have used the extra time to build up his forces, weaponry, food stores, troops, secure bases, etc. This could have aided him in the war significantly.

2. Consider the age of John Connor. At this moment, I have no idea of the year Judgment Day was originally supposed to happen and when it finally did happen, or what age John Connor was supposed to be. But the later Judgment Day actually happens is better for Skynet. Why, because John Connor is aging. He can’t do a damn thing while he is holed up after the war, and the older he becomes while waiting for the nuclear winter to thaw, the more infirm he can become and possibly the less of a leader. In fact, if Skynet was smart, and now that it might possibly know the whereabouts of John Connor during the nuclear winter due to the Terminatrix following him there, Skynet should just eternally bomb the shit out of the surrounding areas of the shelter Connor is in. This way the radiation will kill him if he ever gets out.

I agree that Judgment Day is inevitable. Something so big, contributed to so many people, seems inevitable, but something small, like John Connor’s assassination seems like something that could be thwarted.

T3 seems to be flirting with the notion of fate, as did the Matrix. I wonder if the notion of Fate as a guiding force in life, i.e. that the course of your life can’t be changed because it is already written, is a result of Americans disenfranchisement with life, i.e. minimal control, things can’t be changed, one man can’t make a difference (a la Knight Rider) type of thing.

Interesting.

Saw Matrix: Revolutions again today. Now that I’ve seen it twice, I can definitely say that I liked it. I was a very good movie.

The Matrix - 5 Nuts
The Matrix: Reloaded - 3 ½ - 4 nuts
The Matrix: Revolutions - 3 ½ - 4 nuts

[Rob G]

Terminator deletec scenes.

There was some cool ass shit in the original terminators deleted scenes.

IN one Sarah Conner looks up Cyberdine systems in the phone book and finds an address. She pleads with Reese to go there and destroy it. He says no. Later they sit in the woods and Reese has an emotional breakdown such as "I was never meant to be here, to see this."
He has never seen a tree or anything. In thsi scene Sarah begins to emerge as the strong one.

There is also a plot thread totally taken out where the police captain (Paul Winfield) slowly begins to belive Reese throughout the movie. In the scene where Reese and Sarah escape from the police station, Lt Traxler gives Reese a gun and tells himt o make sure Sarah lives.

And finally the big end scene was deleted. The orginal move ends with the police at the crime scene of the machine factory. The deleted scen shows the factory manager there with the police. He picks up the broken CPU of the terminator and sneaks it off site. Then as the ambullence pulls away the camera drops back to reveal the sign on the front of the factory.. "Cyberdine Systems'

This was good shit and would have lead perfectly into Terminator 2.

[abisai]

If the machines are an inevitable production of mankind, then any time travel to prevent development of computers/machinery/math etc. would only delay the ultimate conclusion of the machines taking over and removing their reliance on mankind. Eh? In the case of the 2nd film, it advanced the timeline forward with crystalline certainty, but the fact that there was a first film meant that someone was going to get to that point anyhow, someway.

I never liked time travel movies though. If it were possible, then the person that won in the end could time travel to the point where they would eliminate the need to time travel in the first place, birthing a paradox and eliminating the original need to time travel. I hate paradox conversations, BUT... I did like the cut ending to the first film I read here, that would have been fun lead in to the second movie.

I for one always preferred Arnold as the bad Terminator. I just wish he could have time traveled with some pants on. Terminator 4: Arnold comes back to impregnant Sara Conner in the first place, replacing any other potential father's with his machine seed, leading to the birth of bionic machinemen that combat both humans and machines in the future.

[larry g]

watch your thoughts ,because they become your actions.
watch your actions,because they become your habbits.
watch your habbits ,because they become your fate.


i am very stupid and this is all i can contribute to this discussion.

[Rob G]

Yes, Timetravel is a silly thing. For all the paradoxs like dave buckley said.

But Terminator stayed preatty consistant in the end. Though the staement "Judgement Day is inevitable" is silly. Its not ineveitable. They reversed the damage done by Terminator 1 in terminator 2 but ofcourse they did nothing to stop what actially occured in the orignal timeline whch lead to Terminator 1. This is why i belive that 2004 was the original Judegment day. It was moved up to 1997 after the CPU from the first terminator was found in T1. They fixed all that in T2 and so Judgement Day fell back again to its original date of 2004.