The Matrix Thread

[Rob G]

So i got to watch Matrix reloaded and it was just like ken explained.

Stuff i gathered:
There were a few versions of the matrix.
There have been 6 previous versions of the current Matrix.
The architect is program who created all the matrixes.
The oracle is very old program whose primary purpose was to study humans. She existed in many different matrixes.
The Utopia matrix and others like it failed because humans need to able to choose to except the matrix even if this dicision is made on a sub-consious level. Thus we have the current matrix.
But allowing humans to choose leaves 1 out of 100 with the ability to reject the matrix. Thsi Anamoly can snowball some how and eventually produce one who can fully reject the matrix. Hence "The One".
The one is an inevitablilty and has appeared in all 6 prior matrixes. All 6 times he has been given Neo's choice of returning to the source or to let the whole human race die. He has chosen all 6 times before to return to the source.
For some reason the Machines allow Zion to exist. I am not sure why. To have a free breeding colony exempt from the matrix?. To have something to hold against the one when he appears?.

Alright so the prophecies that Morphius speaks off is all good because there is a cycle in the matrix.

But how in gods name can the oracle ( a program) see the furture. It would be ok if she could only see the furture inside the Matrix. Like for instance a statistical analisis of human behavior can produce a virtual map of all events that will occur. But alot the stuff she sees has to do with stuff from the real world.

Also:
In reloaded Neo has dreams of things that will happen. As the oracle says "You have the sight now." How can he see the furture. There is a cycle in the matrix but the only permenant factor is Neo. Trinity does not have a counterpart. She did not exist nor did she die the same way in any earlier versions of the matrix. So how does he see her die in the exact manner she does.

I would ok if they say that Neo on top of everything else is a real world Psychic. In fact if neo was a Psychic from the get go that would only reinforce the fact that he can wholely disbelieve the matrix.

So for now i am going with Neo being a real world Psychic.

But the Oracle can not be a Phsychic. No way, she a damn program.

The best guess i have is this.

Maybe the oracle can hack others connection to the matrix. So she can read minds by someway hacking back into the humans brain. Download thought patterns and process them. Because she is a machine she can do better dream analysis and interpetion then we can. Thus she is actually reading Neo's mind and interpeting his visions of the future. This works for neo because I'm going on the assumption that he can infact see the future.

Another similar possibilty would be that Neo's predisessors also could see the future. When this earlier versions of "The one" returned to the source the oracle was able to upload and interpet their visions. Thus she would know all kinds of stuff. We would also have to assume that only the oracle has this ability otherwise there would be others who know the true future.

I am aware that i am reaching very far here.
This is what i had to come to, to except matirx to into my brain.
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The question is what happens now.
What the hell do the humans do if they win. There are only 250,000 people in Zion. I am guessing there is billions in the matrix to concur with real world population of today. They cant feed that many mofos. In fact the only way the humans in the matrix can survive on this world is IN THE MATRIX.

So if you defeat the machines you gotta leave in the matrix anyway. Do you tell them the truth. "Hey listen guys, you all live in 6 foot galls cylinders and can never leave." NOOOOOOOOOOOO.
"The best thing to do would be to give them an illusion of a real life. I got an idea, lets call it the matrix. Ofcourse a system this complex will need many program to perform maintainance and such."

If they do win the nexty generation will be another Matrix exactly the same except with humans in Zion controlling everything. Oh wait, maybe its like that now. Hmmmmm.

So basically the HAPPY HAPPY ending seems a no go.
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There are other options. What if we go with a the whole sentient thing. Like once machines become smart enough they are life of some kind and have rights and everything. Then i suppose the machnes could live and we could all live together in peice. Ofcourse we're still left with those billions of people we cant feed. Maybe our buddies the machines will help us create an illusion of real life for them. We could call it The Matrix. And our buddies the machines could run the whole thing for us while we work on rebuilding the dead planet.

In reloaded there was a conversation between the head council member and Neo were it seemed they were trying to say that Human and machines need sybiosis for survival. So it almost seems like we're heading for something like this.

But we're still left with a matrix.

So to hell with the "Lets be friends ending".
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Now both these endings seem to make no sense. But there always the possibilty of unseen factors. Humans left earth in the big war and set up mars as a working planet. They show up at the end and say we have room for billions and ships for all. Come on down.

Or there were other humans who survived on earth and they have room for billions.

How bout time travel. We will prevent any of this from ever happening. We will stop the war of the machines by sending people back. Maybe they will send someone back to kill Neos great granfather. We could call him a terminater. No NO NO.
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The problem with all these ending is that non of them would be in keeping with the style of these movies. So heres my take on the real ending.
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Presumedly Agent smith gets so tough he kills the architect and can now control the matrix as neo does. They have the huge battle and Neo loses. Yes, Neo loses in the end. He falls into death.

He wakes up. At his computer screen in the first movie. It was all a dream. My god how terrible. But then his computer screens goes black. "Knock Knock, Neo".
Movie screen goes black. We here the knock knock on his door. Roll credits.

-END-

So it was a dream. Or was it.
If it was not a dream then Neo just saw how everything was gonna go down. He is a Psychic ofcourse. But now that he knows how its all gonna go down he could change what he did. And basically we never get to find out what happens to the Billions of people shoudl neo finally win. If it happens like this i have no beef. But if they do the matrix within a matrix thing i will kill someone.

I like it
Anyone have anything to add.

[abisai]

Just a thought. You seem to imply the humans could not sustain the freed billions. Why not? They could use the same machines and technology the matrix uses to feed them. Sure it's gross. But I kind of like it. Reminds me of the Dune sand people (Fremen?) using the water of their dead people, since that was all they could do to get water. Recycling. Also a thought on why machines allow Zion... as back-up in case mechanical failure kills off their crop. Like our Alaskan oil fields, they might not deplete all their natural resources just in case.

I did like your idea of him being a pyschic, that would make sense. Like he has a greater power in his brain to begin with that allows him to overcome the framework of the matrix. The oracle is heck of a curveball. I always thought her giving Neo a cookie in the first film meant she put something in his brain, like Alice eating something to get bigger or whatever, like she changed him and that is how they represented it.

The death of Trinity was a little bit wacky. Does this mean her brain perceives it as OK for a hand to rip into and out of her chest and survive? I don't think so.

What's the deal with the guy Neo fights before he meets the Oracle in the second film? He looked different, is that because he's from a prior matrix? Is it at all possible the Oracle is a pyschic human just lying about being a computer program? Perhaps a prior "One".

The bit with the Architect and the doors always made me unsatisfied. I mean he could straight lie. Does it matter what he says anyway? Neo goes through a door regardless of what he says, but does he already see where this path takes him in the code of the matrix?

They totally imply the machines gaining emotion with intelligence thru the agent, but I seriously doubt they'll make it a feel good closing between human and machine interest. What kind of an ending would that be? Audiences would flee to Terminator films everywhere. The guys that do this are big into Anime and all that, so I am guessing for another inconclusive ending or else a skirt of any explanations. I am specifically thinking of Akira here.

If no matrix within the matrix, which I think is what they'll do after that ending, my best guess is something to incorporate aliens somehow. What else is left to bring into a futuristic conflict with technology but aliens that use it either for or against humans. Maybe the whole matrix is just a body farm of parts for organ transplants to another planet? If they don't do this and go for some computer-human evolutionary bonding, I will gag myself in protest.

I thought your ending was something they could totally pull and I could really see that happening. It leaves nothing answered and the audience begging for more. Plus it is very Anime.

At one point in the second film I thought that Morpheus was machine-like in his mannerisms and I wondered if he was a "program" instead of a person. This makes sense if matrix within the matrix. Then what would be going on? Are we talking machines vs. machines? Could be. Maybe some have philanthropy in mind and try and assist the humans. Would make sense if these were the ones giving Zion the technological know-how to stop and defeat the machines attacking from outside.

Hey, just had a thought. What if the entire matrix is merely an energy production factory for extra-terrestrial space stations. Then the freed people could overtake these space stations and work on rebuilding the globe. There billions in space and an environment built up that could be used to sustain more people if they find a new source of energy. The freed people decide this means sticking the ones in space into the matrix. The cycle continues again. Would be great if they were aliens too. Aliens with computers stuck in their asses.

[Rob G]

Buck wrote:
"Who is that dude neo fought before he met oracle."

Well all they said was he was a program. But he was a really tough dude. His name was Saraph. I think this is take from the Saraphim, the first angels. This makes me think he is an old program from the first matirx. The utopian one which failed. I thought perhaps that any tales carried over speaking of this first utopian matrix could have it being constued as Eden or perhaps even heaven. Explosion must come in here somewhere. So he gets an angel name cause that where he comes from. This is entirely an assumption but sounds nice to me.

I have looked arround internet a bit at when super geeks with greater geek powers then even me have said and i now fear more then even that It is a matrix within a matrix.

Some name games:
nebuchennezar: King Nebuchenezzar in old testament book of daniel?. King Nebucheddnezar come to a great many terrible things. He says "I have dreamed a dream and wish i had never seen at all". In Matrix when Nebuchennezar is destroyed Morpheus says "I have dreamed a dream and now that dream is gone from me.

Persephone: The chick who just needed to kiss Neo in reloaded. Persephone was a prisoner of Hades in greek mystholoogy story. Her mom was a goddess and wanted her back. Bad things happen and stuff. Many super geeks for some reason therise that persephone is the mother of the matrix that the Architect spoke of and that the oracle is something yet to be explained.

[Rob G]

Did you like the name games. Heres some numbers games.

101
This i Neo's room number in the first matrix. It is also the level that The mariovicncio stays on in reloaded.

303
This the room number trinity is in in the beginning of the first matrix. This is also the room that that Neo is trying to get to at end of Matrix 1. Additionally there is sign for sweet number 303 in Mariovinchis home.

Why 101. Because Neo is the One. Also Neo is an anagram of one. Or perhaps it is a refernce to the book 1984. In which Room 101 is a room of torture that will make its victims believe anything they are forced to intake day in day out whether it is the truth or not.

Why 303, Because her name is Trinity. Trinity being 3 (father, son, holy ghost)

Also 101 could binary code. 101 in binary is 5. There have been five matrixes. Or because computers start at zero, 5 is the 6th digit. This is the 6th matrix.

Or, 0 could represent a circle of infinity. Thus 1 infinitly 1. The one will continue to repeat.

But lets get back to 5. We have 1, 3, and 5.

At the end of Reloaded Neo must open the door to the source. The keymaker tells him he has a time period of 314 seconds. Sounds like a bible reference right. This is also 5 minutes and 14 seconds. And 314 is the first 3 digits of PI. Or is 314 PI x 100. Or PI x 10 squared.

Oh boy, these is just getting silly. No i did not come up with this on my own but i enjoyed it.

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Oh yeah buck, You said something about the Oracle givng neo a cookie. In reloaded she gives him candy but he does not eat it. Instead he puts in pocket. Hmmmmm.

[abisai]

I've heard the Neo-One stuff before on the Internet. Didn't know about Nebachenezzer until I looked there too and went into the Bible. This king had sick dreams and demanded his sorcerers explain them, but he refused to tell them what they were. Daniel did. Daniel was also thrown to the lions (for worshipping God and not a pagan idol) and survived.

I don't really enjoy the hodge-podge intermixing of religion into the matrix story lines, but I guess it's there. Will Neo have to face an angel with a flaming sword at the gates of Eden? Will the mark of the beast make an appearance? Will figures from the cloud on high appear to save the day? Is that Neo or someone else if it is? The book of revalation features the one who is the beginning and the end. It also features a lake of fire for those judged unworthy of everlasting life. Hmmm.

Q: was the architect supposed to be a human? if so, where does he live? What about the lock dude, was he supposed to be human or just another program? If they are human, what are they doing in the Matrix at all.

My biggest beefs with Reloaded were:
1) big dance scene that seems put in just to set up the Neo getting ass / Keanu Reeves naked ass shot. Yuck.
2) At the end of the first film, Neo can destroy agents and stop bullets and all that fun stuff. In reloaded, he still fights with his fists and dodges things thrown at him. The "upgrades" thing only goes so far in my mind. It's Neo the super hero from then on, not the mind pattern at work like everything in the first one. Like Serapth or however you spell it, why is he bothering to fight at all there, can't he just uncode him or whatever fancy things the One can do?
3) Sorry, but I didn't feel like they brought it to another level. The first film did that and left you waiting for some action in the real world / Zion side of things. This came about a little, but was literally left hanging for the third film. Makes me think they just didn't have anything great, so they're drawing it out in an effort to build suspense and intrigue, while selling those great action scenes. Also makes me doubt the conclusion will be as awesome as the first.

[Rob G]

Right on all counts. The first film was awesome in many many ways. But with reloaded this whole matrix thing has become something else. I like the entire endeaver but theres still beefs. I dont think the Wachoski brothers are great film directors. I think they had an awesome idea and gathered the right people to execute. But direction is not perhaps their greatest strength. I felt the whole flow of reloaded was wacked. This no more evident then in the now infamous hour long dance scene. "Hold on, stop the plot, everybody dance." But what about the matrix, the machines, the action, the plot. "That will come in time but for now it is time to boogie." Out of control, i cant stand it.

The oracle and the architect and saraph were all programs not native to the current matrix. But they could have lied about this.

[Rob G]

ENTER THE MATRIX: The video game

So i rented and played and beat "Enter the matrix" for playstation. Cool game but short. Anyhow the video game was created and thought out by the Wachioski brother. There are many many scenes, yes real life film scenes in the video game and filmed exclusively for it.

WARNING: VIDEO GAME SPOILERS HERE

The Game follows captain Nyomi (jada pinkett) and her crew through their adventrues which weave in and out of reloaded. It begins with you having to find the package left by captain Thadeus of the Osirus. (yes, the story from Final flight of the osirus, first story of the animatrix.) You get it and transmit. Then you are ordered to gather all the ship captains. This is how Morpheus and the boys come to be summoned in Reloaded. All ship captains are told to go back to Zion. Except for Captain Ballard (Roy jones junior) and his ship. Captain ballard is met by sarraph. (This part is actually film). Saraph fights capatin ballard as he did neo. This fight scene is fat as its roy jones junior using boxing vs. a martial artist. I wish it was in the film. Captain Ballard is given a message for Morpheus which is actually dlivered in Reloaded. Youn return to Zion where there is all kinds of added scenes. Ofcourse Morphius leaves against orders as per reloaded and your sent to find him. You actually play through the big chase scene in reloaded. Remember in reloaded she just showed up in that chase scene. Afterwwards you try to get to your exit but cant. A agent traps you. But alas the keymaker appears. (there is a film scene for this aswell). The key maker has temporarily escaped the Maravinchi. He gives you the key to the source to give to neo. But the marivinchis men show up and break it. You end up having to fight your way through the maravinchi house where vampires live in his dungeons. You are chased by the twins and all that.
Your next adventure is blowing up the nuclear power plant to shot down power so neo can enter the source as per reloaded.
During the end of the movie of reloaded while Neo is facing the architect captain Nyomi (you in the game) is doing other stuff. You end up meeting the oracle. She is played by a different actress because the real actress died during reloaded. It will be this same actress in Revolutions. She explains she looks different as the Maravinchi did this do punish her somehow. Very Vague. She says some very very important things that pertain to the matrix story.

"The path of the one is made but the many. If one fails, we all fail."

I find this particularly important as Neo was always expected to walk the path but not to know nor control the path.

Then she dropped the bomb.

She explained that Neo had entered the source and upon leaving he had seperated his mind and body. She said "His mind is now caught between our world and yours."

Meaning his mind exsists between the Matrix and the real world. This definatly explains how he stopped the sentinels at the end of matrix.

The game ends when you exit and are attacked by Sentinels. You end up having to dive deep into the earth you dont die but the ship is broken. If no one finds you anytime soon you will die. I assume this is where they will find captain Niomi in Revolutions. The game ends with another film scene.
Captain Niomi and her first mate talking. There is no power so it is dark and very quiet. He asks his captain if she thinks anyone will find them. She says yes. He asks what will happen after that. She says she does not know but she expects it will be preatty intense.

CUE THE TRAILER

They show a fat ass trailer for revolutions with footage i have not seen anywhere else.

When trailer ends the scene returns to the 2 figures in the dark. He says "Its good to have something to look foward to." She agrees.

GAME OVER

I thought it was all preatty awesome. I recorded on VHS the important scenes from the game. I cant belove they actually tied into reloaded and the animatrix. It was good stuff.

[abisai]

Video game stuff sounds great. The LOTR ones spliced video from the movies with the fight sequences and I thought it was great and makes the super powers of these new systems almost worth the upgrade. Of course, I started and stopped with Sega Genesis, so they lost my support long ago.

I bet Neo is the Alpha and the Omega. The creator of the Matrix. Would explain his ability to control both worlds. Perhaps his mind was retained on a chip or something and it periodically resurfaces to usurp control again and get everything in order as he originally designed it. Maybe he set this up to avoid the machines from killing him off and having no true masters. Thus, the master lives on and on and is the immortal ONE. Makes about as much sense as anything else they did since one.

I didn't remember, did the rogue agent find a way to enter the minds of the people from Zion? I thought for sure he did that in Reloaded, but they had already made me lose interest in the film by that point.

P.S. You line about, "cut, time to boogie" made me laugh.

[Rob G]

DKB wrote:
"did the rogue agent find a way to enter the minds of the people from Zion?"

The rogue agent i assume you mean. Agent smith who is now a rogue program and can multiple himself. Some part of Neo's code has been imprinted on him. He somehow took control of a real life guy. I am guessing he downloaded himself into that person the same way they download kung fu. The charcter he took overs name is Bane. Bane now possessed by smith tryed to kill Neo in Zion but failed. He did howver sabotage the dfense of Zion. At the end of reloaded they say, yes the defenses fell cause someone set off an emp and shut down all our ships. Only one man survived. And then we see bane laying in a bed next to Neo.

[abisai]

I saw the preview tonight for the third installment.

There was a blink long shot of a red surface with a ship or something floating across it with a blue sky behind it, far different from the traditional vampiric background. Is this the "true world", another planet, or something else?

Also heard the line, something like, it's either me or you. So the agent Smith or Neo rule forever, huh? I still don't get why he needs to fight the computer programs in the Matrix if he can just recode everything, but this looks like another fight fest coming.

[Rob G]

Perhaps what you saw was "Zero-One" the home city of the Machines.

I hear this place will be visited in the 3rd one.

There is a strange bummy guy who appeared in the enter the matrxi game. He only appeared in one scene passing Niobe as she used the same subway phone neo used in the first one. He overhears he conversation as she is say "We only have 72 hours to save Zion."
He turns to her and says "Thats funny, thats exactly how long they had last time." As if he was arround in the last matrix. This guy looked familiar and as suspected he turned out to be the Gyro man from the mad max movies. Then i saw him in the revolutions trailer. They have him listed as Trainman. Who is this Trainman. I wonder if they will bring back some former ones. That would not make much sense. Or perhaps they will produce the next one. I was thinking that kid who gave neo the spoon in reloaded could be it. But who knows. Much speculation, very little facts.

[The Nasinator]

I bought The Matrix Reloaded when it came out the other day and watched it intensely. I watched and listened to the confusing dialogue and then rewinded it and watched it again. Surprisingly, I found myself distracted by the action, as I couldn’t wait for the important dialogue with the Oracle, the Merevingian, and the Architect. I love action, but I am so focused on understanding this movie that I couldn’t wait for the fight scenes to be over.

This is what I understood. The One is an anomaly. Actually, according to the architect, the One is specifically the remainder to an imperfect equation. ::)Let’s go back to fifth grade. 10 divided by 3 equals 3 with a remainder of “ONE.” The architect says that the equation, which is in fact, the matrix, continues on, unimpeded until that remainder builds on itself to such a degree that statistically, someone, anyone, has to “become the One.” So let’s say, that the remainder to the equation/matrix (the Matrix = the equation), is like .00000000000000000000000000000135. Maybe it takes like a 100 or maybe even a 1000 years for the remainder to reach 1 (maybe this is why he is called “the One.” In fact, I just convinced my self this is why he is “the One”). When the equation remainder finally reaches “1” someone actually becomes the one.

Maybe the “One” is chosen at birth? The remainder achieves a positive number at every “birth” in the Matrix? Who knows? I like this explanation. I’m going with it.

The talk around this campfire about how to feed all those in the Matrix when freed is the biggest hurdle the series faces. If you remember from the first one, the food that is given to humans intravenously is actually the remains of other humans who have died. They are liquefied and fed to the humans. Anybody remember the movie, Soylent Green? In this flick, the earth gets so populated that all animals have already been eaten, there is no room to grow anything, so everybody has to eat this green paste just to live. Nobody actually knows what this sh*t is but its called Soylent Green. The heroes of the movie eventually find out that Soylent Green is just processed remains of humans, the most abundant resource left on the planet. Like Buck says, maybe humans could just live off that until the sky can be cleaned up.

I’m really having a problem understanding how Smith is back. The explanation that he somehow was combined with Neo’s code is weird.

The way Smith takes over Bane is credible evidence that there really is a Matrix within a Matrix.

I believe that Zion exists only as a bargaining chip to use against the One when he finally reaches the Source.

Fuk Persophene.

Maybe the Oracle knows what’s going to happen because she was originally tasked with understanding humans and in all the other Matrix’s the One made similar decisions. That’s why she keeps saying that “you already know what your going to do, you’re here to understand WHY your going to do what your going to do,” that voodoo that you do.

Anyway, Reloaded was definitely one of those movies, a la “The 8th Warrior,” that was better the second time around.

[Rob G]

Ah, it is good the Nasinator retruns. It was you who explained this movie to me the first time.

Concerning Smiths return after neo shattered him:
In Matrix 2 they make it seem as though if programs are killed in the matrix you have a choice. To face deletion which i believe returns you to the source presumable to have your data crunched and reasserted throughout the matrix. Or you can choose to hide in the matrix as a rogue. I gathered this from the conversation with the oracle. Now its possible when smith was exploded by Neo he could have simply reappeared in another body like he did when he got hit by the train. But if infact he really died i think he could have avoided deletion. Ofcourse this does not make entire sense as he was quite literally exploded. I got the idea that Neo shattered his entire code. But i think the avoiding deletion thing is the rationization the movie makers are going with.

I like the thing about the one. Thats goood stuff.

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I looked into the meaning of the Maerovingia. Apparently there was a merrovingian dynasty that ruled france from the third century to the 8th century. Also the bloodline of the Merrivingia's is said to come down from jesus christ though charlemagne and it is said the bloodline cane be traced to all major rulers ever including 41 presidents of the united states. It is referred to as the bloodline of kings and the earliest Merrovingia's were said to have special powers. Still other legends say that the first Merravingia was the offspring of Posieden and the queen of atlantis. Others claim him as the offspring of angels.

I think this is interesting that they say he comes from JC. JC being our Neo. Could he be a former "One"s offspring. But hes a program. Hmmmm. There could be something these but i dont know what. Wait, they showed in the reloaded that Merrovingia created a program, the orgasmic cake. Maybe the Merrovingia was created by a former "One".

Dont know but thought this was interesting.

[The Nasinator]

These movies are extremely deep. That stuff about the Merevingian is fascinating. I think I want to look into that more myself. I wasn't even aware of these legends.

Revolutions comes out Nov. 5th. I think I'm going to take that day off from work and see Revolutions like three times. I'm totally psyched to see it and this time around I want to understand it before the DVD comes out.

Every time I see a trailer on TV or the movies, it looks better and better every time.

[Rob G]

Yes, they are deep. Especially from the research done by the directors. Virtually every name has a background.

If you go to www.thematrix.com you can watch the brand new full length theatrical trailer. It is awesome but i think gives away a bit.