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Post by Ken on Oct 12, 2009 8:59:45 GMT -5
How disappointing. I was hoping you would rise to the challenge an extoll the virtues of your president, your annointed messiah, but I guess even YOU can't figure out why Obama is so great. Thanx, that tells all us CONservatives a lot!
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Post by Ken on Oct 12, 2009 9:05:46 GMT -5
After politically insulting each other, let's try to help each other. I just read this article in the NY Post. I know Danielle is going to school, this is great financial aid information.
Obama will give you $2,500 a year to go to school
(ARA) - By now, everyone knows that the Obama administration's stimulus bill is designed to get the economy moving again. However, you may not know that most of the bill's $70 billion for education will go to low- to middle-income individuals.
A major part of the bill is a $13.8 billion tuition tax credit boost called the American Opportunity Tax Credit. This tax credit reimburses 100 percent of the first $2,000 of educational expenses for lower income students. For the next $2,000, students will receive a 25 percent reimbursement. In short, lower income students will receive $2,500 in education reimbursements per year.
The bill also features other benefits for low-income students. Families that do not earn enough to pay income taxes can receive a $1,000 education refund.
"These kinds of incentives from the government don't come along very often," says Janet Hill, financial aid and education counselor at ClassesandCareers.com, a free online education service. "If people have been thinking of going back to school, now would be the time to do it. If they are hurting financially, they can easily get the money they need to get a degree." These benefits are set to expire after the 2010-2011 school year.
Fortunately, thanks to a growing number of online education options, degree-seekers can take advantage of President Barack Obama's stimulus bill without leaving their jobs. Sites like Classes and Careers.com have helped nearly 500,000 degree-seekers get their stimulus money and enroll in online universities.
"We help people learn how to take advantage of this bill," says Hill. "All they have to do is visit our form and fill it out. We guide them through the rest."
If you are a low-income individual and want to get money to go back to school, visit ClassesandCareers.com, fill out their form, and indicate which schools you may be interested in. An education advisor will contact you and help you get your share of President Obama's stimulus money to go back to school.
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Post by larry g on Oct 12, 2009 10:59:17 GMT -5
HEY ROB THE "YOURGIRLSLOVE HANDLE" GUY CHECK HIS IP BECAUSE IM GONNA PAY HIM A VISIT AND SEE IF HE CAN TAKE ME SERIOUSLY THEN..
ANYONE WHO GOS AFTER A PERSONS POST ON AN INTERNET FORUM IS A LITTLE BITCH.. I KNOW YOUR TRYING TO SAY IM UNEDUCATED, BUT IM NOT THE LITTLE COWARD POSTING ANONYMOUSLY. WHO ARE YOU FAGGIT. COME STAND UP FOR ONCE IN YOUR LIFE AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS , ILL MAKE A MAN OUT OF YOU, WELL NOT REALLY, YOU WILL STILL BE A BITCH WITH A MOUTH FULL OF MY COCK JUICE OUT ON THE CORNER WERE YOU BELONG.
DO YOU UNDERSTAND, DO YOU SPEAK ENGLISH, PUSSY BOY
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Post by larry g on Oct 12, 2009 11:04:00 GMT -5
MEO MYO TALITO OHIO
i think talito needs some cops like bones because this shit is out of control.. the one thing about modern gangsters is they are terrible shots, im not a gun guy but how can you fire that many round at that range and not hit anyone.
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Post by larry g on Oct 12, 2009 11:07:49 GMT -5
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Post by Ken on Oct 12, 2009 18:14:17 GMT -5
If you want to post posters on the message board, you defeat the purpose of the message board itself, which is DISCUSSION.
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Post by spiderfate on Oct 12, 2009 19:31:24 GMT -5
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Post by Rob G on Oct 13, 2009 3:19:08 GMT -5
How about you try and "sell" me on this visionary style that has never been seen before, maybe you can convince me. I promise to keep an open mind. I'm not totally comfortable with this. Because anytime you try to have serious discussion here someone comes out of left field with some belligerent reteric of which I have no patience for. And all i'm gonna do here is put my honest thoughts on the line of whcih people are gonna pick at and I will have to spend the next three weeks defending and clarifying. But in any event. You ask me like a man and cannot turn you away my old friend. So here it is. Get the flux capcitor ready. We're going to 88. Why Obama kicks ass. First off we must establish context. Whichever candidate won the 2008 Presidential Election was walking into a world of shit. Here is our countries status at that time. 1) We are engaged in a war in Iraq. A war in which we not entirely sure was ever justified. A war that has completely lost the backing of the American public. A war that at this point has become an endless occupation. Our troops continue to get killed a lot of times in ways it seems could be avoided. 2) The economy is in the shit hole and going down at an outrageous rate. Experts predict no end it site. Jobs are vanishing and prices on shit is rising. 3) The world at large views our country as a brazen arrogant superpower that acts unilaterally and disrespectfully. How Obama handled these different things: The Wars: I Wanted out of Iraq. But I did not want to cut and run. It’s a difficult position to execute. But Obama began pulling the troops out slowly and those that stayed were pulled back to secure positions. The continuous IED deaths almost vanish. He then starts pouring troops back into Afghanistan where the real fuck heads our. And as we have seen in recent weeks it’s been pretty serious over there which goes to show those motherfuckers are at it. He also green lights attacks directly into northern Pakistan where the tribes rule. I mean the Pakistani government has NO POWER in that area. But since its part of Pakistan we have been unwilling to strike in that area. But fuck that. I am down for my allies and Pakistan has done us solid. But if you don’t control the area then it’s just not a part of your country. He basically wedged Pakistan into the position of. You people need to handle that shit or we will come into country and handle it for you. So that’s what Pakistan did. That whole situation is escalating to new heights as we speak. But good. Lets pull this fuckers out of the darkness and into the light. Both Pakistan and Iraq were very complicated situations that I felt he handled brilliantly. The economy: Now first and foremost the fucking stimulus package was going into effect no matter who became president. But whoever got in was going to take the hit for it. But even with the money already Green lit Obama has been as tight as he could be with it. Pushing for higher standards for business to receive aid. Like making sure the money actually helps the most people.; That was thinking behind Cash for Clunkers. I mean the American Auto companies have been on government welfare for decades anyway. But rooting the money the way he did in that program gave people a chance to get a car that otherwise could not. The money goes to the person whose going to buy the car. Then the car salesmen gets a piece. Then the car manufacture has to make more cars. It helps keep the auto companies solvent, benefits all the workers in that industry from the guy selling the car, to the guy building the car, and some guy gets a new car who otherwise would not. The rest he has on a loan where the struggling banks make money. I mean that whole deal was brilliant. And the stimulus package appears to be working. The head of the fed declared that the downward slide was ending. This is occurring way ahead of schedule. This economy problem was another deal that was scary as shit and Obama seems to have handled it as best as possible. Healthcare: I don’t have rave reviews on this one. But the truth is Healthcare in the county is shattered. There’s so many uninsured and the old unions that had great healthcare are dying and as time goes bye the benefits are decreasing. And the whole concept of FOR PROFIT HEALTHCARE is creating a darker and more brutal arena. Things are really bad and they are getting worse. Something needs to be done. In general I am for the type of deal they are proposing. But really I am for trying ANYTHING new. My regrets are that at the time of such unreal economic peril I don’t know if this is the time to spend a trillion dollars on a government program. Additionally I especially resented the way Obama and the democrats tried to railroad one of the biggest programs in American history right through the legislature. This is something that needs to be discussed examined and considered. It needs to be explained to the American people and they need time to digest it and commutate to their representatives how they feel about it. Obama is trying to do the right thing here but this issue is steeped in political madness. Little things I liked: I liked that he opened communications with Cuba. That shit is old and Cuba is on their back soon. We need to bring them into the fold. I liked that he said he would take to N. Korea directly which is what they wanted the whole time. We should never be afraid to talk. Of course as soon as he agreed Little Kim backed out. I liked that he canceled the funding for the Joint Strike Fighter. WE DON’T NEED A FUCKING AIR SUPERIORITY JET. We just built the raptors that can take out anything. And by the way the Tomcat/Eagle from Top Gun is still better then what everyone else has. If anything we need attack planes like this Super Hornet. This was egregious spending that no one could justify and he had the balls to call it out. In accepting the Nobel Peace Prize which I said I did not think he deserved he said. "I am both surprised and deeply humbled by the decision of the Nobel Committee," "To be honest, I do not feel that I deserve to be in the company of many of the Tran formative leaders who have received this prize." -This is good shit. He’s calling it like it is. And Generally I like the way he represents our country. As a poised and educated man who is willing to take to anyone about anything. To think things through. To be thoughtful but not weak. I was a skeptic from the get go. My feelings of Obama were those of skepticism and distrust. I was Skeptic because he did not have a lot of experience and distrustful because of charisma and charming presence. Generally when someone talks that good they are running bullshit on you. But after everything I have seen it really appears to me that the guy is doing a fantastic job and possibly could be something very special. He has earned my trust for now.
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Post by Ken on Oct 13, 2009 15:50:34 GMT -5
I deeply appreciate you putting your thoughts and feelings out there for us to have a good discussion on. I promise to tone down the rhetoric, which I usually only use for certain instances ( ;D ), and continue the discussion in a cordial, friendly manner.
First of all, I would like to say that I acknowledge George Bush’s shortcomings, the biggest one being the attitude of superiority and exclusion his administration fostered between all three branches of government. His administration did not invite the ideas or opinions of Democrats and friends across the aisle and this created an even more heightened atmosphere of distrust between parties. In this respect, it is hard for me to blame Obama or Democrats for not accepting the proffered hand of Republicans. In my opinion, this is what helped shape the world opinion of the U.S. being a unilateral, military giant flexing its muscles. That being said, I think your assessment of whoever won the presidential election was in for a world of shit. The war in Iraq had lost support, and the economy tanking was the last nail in the bush coffin. We can argue whose fault the economy tanking really was, Barney Frank or the Bush administration, but in the end neither did anything, so shouldn’t everybody have to shoulder a share of the blame?
War Everybody knows my opinion of the Iraq war. I also wanted out, but I didn’t want to leave the country over to the Iranians and watch all the blood over there that was spilled to be for nothing. I’m prepared to have a significant military presence over there for an extended period of time until the Iraqi’s get their shit together.
I understand the desire to shift focus to Afghanistan. We routed the Taliban out, now we can’t let them get back in, or gain a foothold in Pakistan. They need to be taken care of, again. I also liked the way we sent strikes into Pakistan. I’m not as sure as you are that we did that unilaterally, but that we had Pakistan’s blessing, seeing as how they couldn’t control that area anyway, we did them a favor. I think it was a mutually beneficial situation.
My concern is that we see through the war in Iraq. If we’re going to build a nation, I’d rather build Iraq. That nation is more geographically strategic than Afghanistan. Another concern is that Obama may be trying to put his own stamp on a foreign war, and distancing himself from the Bush administration in focusing on Afghanistan. I’m not sure if that is a strategic imperative. Only time will tell.
Economy I’ve never been too concerned with the deficit. I’ve always been of the opinion that eventually it would even itself out. However, this level of spending scares even me. That being said, I was, and am, all for bailing out the car companies. These companies employ thousands of Americans who have families, who are the backbone of our society in many ways. I also didn’t want to see this sector of our manufacturing completely disappear. Sure, I’m for capitalism, but not for capitalism’s sake. There is no need to let an entire sector of our economy disappear overnight just because they’re not competitive, and let the Chinese and Japanese own the worldwide automobile market. As you know, I have a special place in my heart for GM and its history, and I think the United States would be worse off if it disappeared forever.
I loved the Cash for Clunkers program for all the reasons you stated. I just wish it would have lasted a little while longer b/c I didn’t get to take part in it.
As for the economy coming out of the recession? Well, all the experts predicted that the worst would be over this past June, however the jobless numbers are still sky-high, so until those numbers come down significantly, I’ll keep holding my breath.
Healthcare Believe it or not, Larry has divided my mind on this one, that bastard. Part of me, the selfish part, doesn’t want to see the status quo change b/c then my coverage will change, and I am very happy with my coverage. The other part of me thinks, “who the hell am I to deny health care coverage to ANYBODY!” All I have to do is remember my experiences with the millions of bouts of strep throat I had in the past and I suddenly want EVERYBODY to be covered. But the question is, how do we pay for it? Make no mistake, if there is a “free” option available, then companies will not pay for their employees to have healthcare, its simple economics.
I agree that with our economy in the shape it is in, healthcare may not be the best option on the table right now. Perhaps a better strategy would be to introduce small changes at first to the system, and future presidents add on to those changes as time goes by.
I was alarmed, scared, and outraged with the way the government tried to ram this bill through without consulting the public. That was scary, and an abuse of power.
I think we can agree on a lot of things, and we both have valid concerns going forward. I really do hope and pray for the President. I want him not to be successful, but to make our country successful, because then we are all successful.
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Post by Ken on Oct 13, 2009 15:54:42 GMT -5
By the way, what the heck is going on with Larry and this Love handles guy?
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Post by Rob G on Oct 14, 2009 12:30:06 GMT -5
First of all, I would like to say that I acknowledge George Bush’s shortcomings, the biggest one being the attitude of superiority and exclusion his administration fostered between all three branches of government. His administration did not invite the ideas or opinions of Democrats and friends across the aisle and this created an even more heightened atmosphere of distrust between parties. In this respect, it is hard for me to blame Obama or Democrats for not accepting the proffered hand of Republicans. I was alarmed, scared, and outraged with the way the government tried to ram this bill through without consulting the public. That was scary, and an abuse of power. Yeah thats exactly what Obama and the Dems were thinking when they were trying to railroad Healthcare through. And look I understand somebody fucks you your gonna fuck em back. I can live with that to a certain degree. Like the demcrats always move the tax burden up the line towards the higher class and tehn the republcians move it back. And both sides secure benefits for their special interest groups. You wanna railroad that shit throgh fine. But doing that with Healthcare was fucking garbage and I always extropolate more from things then I should. To me the cash for clunkers thing was awesome and I thought man if they apply that thinking accross the board then we could really do some shit. At the same time the arrogance of trying to bang that heathcare through. If they keep that up we could be in some shit. Thats now democracy, thats rulership and this is not a monarchy.
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Post by Rob G on Oct 14, 2009 12:31:50 GMT -5
Lovehandles is Jboy. He just comes on stirs the pot and goes on his way.
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Post by spiderfate on Oct 15, 2009 11:56:27 GMT -5
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Post by Rob G on Oct 19, 2009 14:23:40 GMT -5
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Post by Max Headroom on Dec 26, 2009 1:36:28 GMT -5
Merry Christmas. My name is Max Headroom, refer to me as MAX. "He cannot transform his hope and change slogan into meaningful policies if he signals that he can be had on one issue after another by being desperate to get any legislation so long as he can give it the right public relations label." - Ralph Nader on Obama www.nader.org/index.php?/archives/2161-Agent-of-Change.htmlObama's quote on the Senate bill includes these words; "... poised to deliver on the promise of real, meaningful health- insurance reform..." Noteworthy is the difference in promising health reform and delivering health insurance reform. People on the left are outraged the bill stands to deliver insurance companies with more revenues by requiring enrollment and insurers stocks are doing well. They have a point, the bill as written meanders through industry changes and delivers items that make meaningful changes to far less than the majority. People on the right are upset and want to point out the flaws of DC in getting bills passed by highlighting riders for Nebraska and Florida. Too little, too late Republicans. The population at large has polled in favor of various reforms, depending on the polling questions, but seems more against the current bill at this moment. This combination reeks of a further compromise to dilute the bill further from reform into incremental changes. The analogy that comes to mind is Kennedy promising to land on the moon and getting a rocket that can't escape Earth's gravitational field. The section on chronic disease (4001) addresses the core problem of healthcare; chronic diseases eat up major allocations of healthcare spending because these are no longer as lethal as in prior generations and these patients have massive demands compared to the rest of the population. The bill calls for a council (government jobs in DC) to study and make recommendations. The bill creates a budget to fund prevention that teeters around one billion dollars. This is supposed to be used for preventative screenings, immunizations, and outreach. Divide one billion by 300 million citizens and that's $3-4 dollars a head per year. This explains why the rest of this section focuses on task force and community outreach; at that rate the only efficacy every available is information/education. The bill describes how to pitch a media campaign. So, in part, the healthcare bill throws money at media providers and "...may include the use of humor and nationally recognized positive role models." My take; the education initiative theme has to be discarded. It's cost-efficient but not effective for enacting changes and nowhere in the realm of reform. Food portions, food sources, regulations (trade/additives/packaging/hormones/bioengineering), are not targeted despite the direct correlation between population weight and population health, most especially in the major chronic diseases (heart failure, diabetes, depression). Ignoring the food supply is ignoring the problem. Instead of making organic food or exercise equipment subsidies (I don't advocate these but at least they aim for a better target) the bill offers health insurance subsidies. Why relate this to Obama when he did not draft the bill? I think that is the criticism most have. I keep thinking, however, that removing Obama, Biden, and Clinton from the Senate took firepower away from the party where it needed it most. Anyway, universal healthcare was huge in the DNC debates and Obama stump speeches called for healthcare reform. Here's what he said in Raleigh, NC ; "If you already have health insurance ... we will lower premiums. If you don't have health insurance, you'll be able to get the same kind of health insurance that Members of Congress get ... We'll invest in preventative care ... will stop insurance companies from discriminating against those who are sick and need care most." He offered leadership, he's got a stake in it, and he has to sign the thing so he should be very invested in whatever dealings go on in Congress. Given the scope and range of interested parties from all angles of the country, it's a debate that the citizens have a hard time narrowing on individuals in Congress and either cascade across all of "them" or pitch at the President. It's hard to call on all 535 members of Congress but easy to write a letter to 1 President. This will be his mantle to wear and he welcomed this challenge literally at the inception of his run for President, saying in 2007; "universal health care in America by the end of the president's first term." It's hard to imagine he either did not engage on the Hill or that he did not care to focus at the moment, it's more likely he simply did not exert enough influence.
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